The Question of Prussia
Posted on 06. Jan, 2009 by Anna in History
A few weeks ago one of the readers made a comment about Prussia. A family member of hers claimed to have Prussian ancestry, not Polish. Personally, I find this statement a bit odd, but that’s just me, OK?
Prussia, Prusy in Polish (a.k.a. Germany, or one of its many incarnations) was a neighbor of Poland for many, many centuries. Eventually, on August 5, 1772, it added a big chunk of Poland to its own territory.
Remember the Partitions (rozbiory)? Well, that’s when it happened. Russia and Austria got a nice piece each, too.
You see, Prussia was very oddly shaped – there was East Prussia and West Prussia. And between them was a bit of Poland. Of course they didn’t like it, and as soon as they got a chance, they took care of that issue – by adding the Polish territory to their own.
click on the map to make it bigger
Here, on the map you can see how Poland disappeared. The white area bordered by all the blue and the see – that’s East Prussia. The darker blue area to the left of that – that used to be Poland. The slightly less dark blue area under the dark blue area used to be Poland, too. That chunk went to Prussia during the second partition.
So unless someone’s ancestors came from the white bit of East Prussia, or the white area to the left of the blue pieces – West Prussia, I’m not sure just how Prussian they could be otherwise.
If I remember correctly, I also have a bunch of relatives who claimed Prussian ancestry. They spoke German and had goofy German last names. And during communist times they all emigrated to West Germany.
It just goes to show you that Poles come in all different flavors.
Yet for some very odd reason it’s more common for certain Poles from the Prussian part of Poland (after the Partitions) to say they are of Prussian origin than for Poles from the Russian part to admit to Russian origin.
This post is in no way intended to stir controversy. It was simply to show you how Poland ceased to exist. Geographically, that is.
Image: Wikipedia
I think it would be more accurate to say that the map shows how the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth ceased to exist…
Technically Prussia wasn’t ‘Germany’ but a state in the North (and especially Northeast) of the German speaking areas (before WWII of course) of Europe.
Most of what’s now Southern Germany didn’t really have anything to do with Prussia before the establishment of the German empire.
Prussia was an especially … influential part of the German speaking areas and had a fair amount of world influence in educational and military affairs (IIRC the modern education system of Japan was modeled after the Prussian system).
In modern Poland, Poznań, historically part of Prussia as Posen, prides itself on its Prussian influence (and has historically been among the most European, forward looking and efficiently managed cities in Poland).
Hi Michael!
That’s true, and that’s why I said it was “Germany” in one of its many incarnations, and when the capital of Prussia was moved to Berlin, Prussia became de facto Germany.
Gdańsk also prides itself on its German (and Dutch) influence, however it took some time for the influence to re-emerge after WW2. But Prussian influence on Polish soil is one thing, and a Pole (coming from a village by Warsaw IIRC) claiming to be of Prussian and not Polish decent is another. But then again, people would have claimed Klingon ancestry if that could have helped them leave Poland during the communist times…
X,
Thank you for pointing it out! How silly of me not to realize that there was no such thing as Poland, but the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Duh! I must have been asleep in my history classes.
I’m looking for a Michael A Farris who was a student at the University of Florida in the early 1990s and who moved to Poland to teach. Have I found him?
The Prussians were also a Baltic ethnic group in the area, who lent their name to the state. The language they spoke was Old Prussian, the most closely related living languages of which are Latvian and Lithuanian. This language saw extinction about three hundred years ago when its speakers gradually disappeared into the more numerous populations of Germans, Poles and Lithuanians surrounding them.
I have tried to research my last name with no luck. Older family members are passed away. The farthest back I found is my great grandfather Jon Kwaschnefski who left Bremen Germany for the US in the late 1800′s. Polish, German, or Prussian? Just want to know to tell my son. I have always said Polish, but often times Polish names have milder sounding names than mine. Any help would be appreciated.
Prussia was a country before the country of Germany was established. Most people don’t realize that Germany wasn’t a country until the early 1900′s. The country’s and kingdoms that make up todays Germany were called German states. Prussia was dissolved to create the unified country of Germany. When I read my grandparents marriage and birth certificates, they stated either West Prussia or East Prussia. Their native language was German. I do claim to be Prussia, not German or Polish!
Prussia!
You’re all on the right track, but there’s some tweaking needed.
The original Prussians were a Baltic peoples that were Christianized by the Teutonic Knights and then incorporated into Poland after the Knights were destroyed. Those original inhabitants eventually disappeared and were replaced by Germanic colonists. Prussi as a language is long dead.
Prussia was given to Brandenberg, which contained Berlin. Back in those days, the German states were loosely controlled by the Holy Roman Emperor. Brandenberg-Prussia gained its independence in 1701. Regarded as Prussia from that time forward, it fought its way into a reputation of being a Sparta of the North.
Under the direction of Bismark, the Prussian army destroyed Denmark, Austria and then France to conquer the German area and incorporate it into a Germanic Empire. Within the empire the states and kingdoms had theoretical power, but the Prussians controlled it all.
After the abdication of the Kaiser in 1918, Prussia was the largest province within Germany.
In 1945, the Allies believed that Prussia was the cause of the war and dissolved it. This was wrong, of course. It was caused by the Austrian in charge!
A lot of people still consider themselves Prussian,, My family is Prussian Lutheran,,, well,, American first,, but the latter still used,, still follow the royal house ,,,,symbolic leaders of our church,, or they were anyway,,
My great,great grandfather Johan Sancoffsky wrote in 1827 in his autobiography that he was born in Mechlow near Finkenstein in Polish Prussia on 31 August 1774 and christened in Finkenstein Church, nearest town Risaburg His language was German and religion Lutheran. He worked as a clerk in the general’s house which had over 300 rooms (presumably Finkenstein Palace).
Whilst living in Dantzig in 1791 the city was taken by the King of Prussia and Johan set sail from Dantzig and settled in England in 1807 where he changed his name to John Cofty.
I understand that my ancestors JUCKSCH-KETTSCHLAG immigrated to Canada from Gross Gandern (prussia) in 1861.
Any information would be greatly appreciated
Ernie Jukes
my family is of prussian descent as well.. i’ve been looking for any sort of information on the family (klemsz, last name possibly contained a t at some point..) stumbled across this page looking for any history or insight.
Unfortunately It seems some people are more concerned with the politics of Prussia vrs Poland. When Family Jucksch immigrated to Canada it was Germany.in an area once known as Prussia. Will someone over there please help me find any record of their background in the dorf of Gross Gandern now called a Polish name. They spoke German and their is no history of anything Polish. We of course can not help that but still deserve a bit of help as we would do so in the reverse situation. Thats what Canadians are like! E. Jukes
Anna…….They spoke German, had German customs immigrated to a Geman town of Hanover ,Ontario, Canada…so they came from Prussia whats the problem now lets be more helpful, quit the politics and tell me more about the Jucksch- Kettschlag in Gross Gandern. Or anything before it became Gadkow Wielki, Poland. Danke….Ernie Jukes from Canada
Looking for any info re the Polte family from Freiburg (Pol: Sweibosie (sp?), Polsnitz (Pol: Pelznica), or Barsdorf (Pol: Targoszyn.) Frederick von Polte m. Christiana Schramm: children – Anna, Adolph, Amelia, Gustav, Ida, Emma, Erica, Gretel.
I ran across this website looking for information on my family, last name Pitzke. I was told my great great great grandfather(George Fredrick William Pitzke), I think is what he would be, immigrated to the US-he lived in Rugenwalde, Prussia. If anyone has any information PLEASE email me. Thank you.