{"id":10504,"date":"2018-04-30T19:47:24","date_gmt":"2018-04-30T19:47:24","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/?p=10504"},"modified":"2018-05-25T11:42:45","modified_gmt":"2018-05-25T11:42:45","slug":"saying-east-and-west-in-irish-or-de-reir-an-tseanfhocail-soir-gach-siar-faoi-dheireadh-thiar","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/saying-east-and-west-in-irish-or-de-reir-an-tseanfhocail-soir-gach-siar-faoi-dheireadh-thiar\/","title":{"rendered":"Saying ‘East’ and ‘West’ in Irish, or, de r\u00e9ir an tseanfhocail, ‘Soir gach\u00a0siar,\u00a0faoi\u00a0dheireadh\u00a0thiar’"},"content":{"rendered":"

(le R\u00f3isl\u00edn)<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>

grafaic (mapa): http:\/\/www.clker.com\/clipart-ireland-1.html<\/a>; t\u00e9acs Gaeilge & dearadh le R\u00f3isl\u00edn, 2018<\/em><\/p><\/div>\n

North and South pair up nicely in many parts of the world, as we’ve seen in some recent blogposts here (naisc th\u00edos<\/strong>).\u00a0 Examples included Baile \u00c1tha Cliath Thuaidh \/ Theas, Meirice\u00e1 Thuaidh \/ Theas<\/strong>, and very timely for current events, An Ch\u00f3ir\u00e9 Thuaidh<\/strong> and An Ch\u00f3ir\u00e9 Theas<\/strong>.\u00a0 One pair we didn’t get to last time is An Mol Thuaidh<\/strong> agus An Mol Theas<\/strong>.\u00a0 (The North Pole, The South Pole).<\/p>\n

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If you’re wondering how to pronounce “Thuaidh<\/strong>” and “Theas<\/strong>,” there is a brief pronunciation tip below for newcomers.\u00a0 It includes Thuaidh<\/strong> and Theas,<\/strong> mentioned above, and also “Thoir<\/strong>” (East) and “Thiar<\/strong>” (West) which will be discussed below.\u00a0 For a brief note on the numerous other forms of words for east (like “Oir<\/strong>-) and west (like “Iar<\/strong>-), please see the second note below.<\/p>\n

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And now, some of the pairs.\u00a0 In Ireland, there are various voting constituencies, such as the following:<\/p>\n

Gaillimh Thoir, Gaillimh Thiar<\/strong>, Galway East, Galway West<\/p>\n

Corcaigh Thoir, Corcaigh Thiar<\/strong>, Cork East, Cork West<\/p>\n

an Mh\u00ed Thoir, an Mh\u00ed Thiar<\/strong>, Meath East, Meath West<\/p>\n

Luimneach Thoir, Luimneach Thiar<\/strong>, Limerick East, Limerick West<\/p>\n

B\u00e9al Feirste Thoir, B\u00e9al Feirste Thiar<\/strong>, Belfast East, Belfast West \u00a0(Northern Ireland)<\/p>\n

Note that these are not the same forms for saying West Cork or East Belfast, geographically, although it wouldn’t surprise me if there has been some overlap, at least in the past.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Here are some more pairs<\/p>\n

Sl\u00e9ibhte Cugais Thiar<\/strong>: West Caucasus (lit. mountains of West Caucasus); Sl\u00e9ibhte Cugais Thoir<\/strong>: East Caucasus (lit. mountains of East Caucasus)<\/p>\n

Fl\u00f3ndras Thoir<\/strong>, East Flanders; Fl\u00f3ndras Thiar<\/strong>, West Flanders<\/p>\n

na hIndiacha Thoir<\/strong>, the East Indies; na hIndiacha Thiar<\/strong>, the West Indies<\/p>\n

an Fronta Thoir, an Fronta Thiar<\/strong>; the Eastern Front (I found only a handful of Irish language references online, but enough to count!), the Western Front<\/p>\n

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 <\/p>\n

Historically we have:<\/p>\n

Afraic Thiar na Fraince<\/strong>, French West Africa<\/p>\n

Afraic Thoir na Breatain<\/strong>e, British East Africa<\/p>\n

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 <\/p>\n

And my new favorites,<\/p>\n

Gonduana Thoir<\/strong>, East Gondwana,<\/p>\n

Gonduana Thiar<\/strong>, West Gondwana<\/p>\n

Who was mapping out directions back then?<\/p>\n

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So that’s the basic terminology and some examples for “thiar<\/strong>” and “thoir<\/strong>.”\u00a0 In almost all cases, the use of “Thiar<\/strong>” and “Thoir<\/strong>” seems to correspond specifically to “East” or “West,” as such (not to “eastern” or “western”).\u00a0 But there’s at least one prominent exception, “An Sah\u00e1ra Thiar<\/strong>” (Western Sahara, which is the official name of the region, or at least as official as it gets for this contested region, afaik).\u00a0 Normally, as we’ve seen above, “Thiar<\/strong>” would be translated “West,” not “Western,” but so be it, sin mar at\u00e1<\/strong>.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Finally, let’s consider the seanfhocal<\/strong> (proverb) used in the title of this blogpost: ‘Soir gach\u00a0siar,\u00a0faoi\u00a0dheireadh\u00a0thiar” <\/strong>(lit.\u00a0 East every west, finally west).\u00a0 Just as a preview for some future post, “soir<\/strong>” and “siar<\/strong>” indicate motion (eastwards and westwards, respectively).\u00a0 “Thiar<\/strong>“corresponds to the phrases we’ve used today, and is for something stationary, like, we hope, land masses or nations (although there was the floating Sea-Star Island, in the movie Doctor Dolittle)<\/em>.\u00a0 Um, Gondwanaland, though — I dunno.\u00a0 I thought the whole theory of teicteoinic phl\u00e1ta\u00ed<\/strong> (or should I say “pl\u00e1ta\u00ed teicteonacha<\/strong>” here?) involved movement soir<\/strong> and siar<\/strong> and also “\u00f3 thuaidh<\/strong>” and “\u00f3 dheas<\/strong>.”\u00a0 Bhuel, sin ceist do na geolaithe!\u00a0 N\u00ed saineola\u00ed geola\u00ed m\u00e9.<\/strong><\/p>\n

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It has always struck me as odd that if we’re in Ireland, say, and we travel west, eventually we come to the Far East.\u00a0 Then, traveling further in the same direction, we come to Southeast Asia, South Asia (the Indian subcontinent), and the Middle East, then eastern Europe, and then, lo and behold, it’s western Europe again.\u00a0 So we traveled through all those areas called east to get west.\u00a0 It would be a fascinating trip.\u00a0 Somehow, it reminds me of Dervla Murphy’s Full Tilt<\/em>, but in reverse.\u00a0 For the India-to-Ireland leg of the journey, we could be retracing the route of the amazing Irish travel writer Dervla Murphy, backwards of course.\u00a0 We’d work our way westward through Europe and end up back in Ireland.\u00a0 You can read about Murphy’s journey, done on a bicycle (!), which she named “Rozinante” and nicknamed “Roz,” in her 1965 book, Full Tilt: Ireland to India with a Bicycle<\/em> (nasc th\u00edos<\/strong>).\u00a0 Say, I should go back and re-read that!\u00a0 I remember some details of her adventures traveling eastward toward India, but did she also cycle back?<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

At some point I’ll look further into some east-west phrases that may not work in pairs, but that will have to wait for another post.\u00a0 SGF — R\u00f3isl\u00edn<\/strong><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

N\u00f3ta 1<\/strong> (Pronunciation tip):<\/p>\n

Thuaidh<\/strong> – the “t” is silent and the “-aidh” part sounds like “ee.”<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Theas<\/strong> – \u00a0the “t” is also silent and the final “s” is hard, so it rhymes with “mass” or “class,” or Irish “deas.”<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Thoir<\/strong> – the “t” is silent (ar\u00eds!) and the “r” is “slender,” meaning it’s not like most “r’s” in English but it is similar to the “r” in the Czech name Ji\u0159\u00ed and like other Irish examples, such as “tirim” or “M\u00e1ire.”\u00a0 If it helps, it also sounds to me like the “rz” combination in Polish “rzeka” (river), but since I don’t speak that language, I don’t know if it’s an exact match.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Thiar<\/strong> – the “t” is silent (as you’re getting used to by now!), the two vowels are pronounced separately, as in Irish “bia” or “Dia,” and as in “Tia Maria.”\u00a0 The “r” is lightly flapped, since it’s “broad” (not “slender” like the “r” of “thoir”)<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

N\u00f3ta 2: Just a disclaimer, I haven’t dealt much with “eastern” and “western” or “east (part of)” and “west (part of”) here,\u00a0 except to note the forms in passing here.\u00a0 Why no further exploration?\u00a0 It would make the blogpost way too long, so let’s just note the following for future reference:\u00a0 oirthearach<\/strong> or oir<\/strong>– (east), iartharac<\/strong>h or iar<\/strong>– (west), Oirthear<\/strong> (East, as is Oirthear na Gearm\u00e1ine<\/strong>, formerly, of course, and Iarthar na Gearm\u00e1ine<\/strong>, again, until 199o, both aka an<\/strong> Oir-Ghearm\u00e1in<\/strong> and an Iar-Ghearm\u00e1in<\/strong>, respectively ). BTW, for an interesting, if short article in Irish on Oirthear na Gearm\u00e1ine<\/strong>, you might want to check out the link below, for an article from 1961, the year the Berlin Wall was started.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

And for simplicity’s sake, I’m also not doing the geography terms that indicate motion eastward or westward (siar, soir, aniar, anoir<\/strong>), except as noted in the graphic above.\u00a0 Barra\u00edocht do bhlagmh\u00edr amh\u00e1in<\/strong>.<\/p>\n

Naisc d’iarbhlagmh\u00edreanna<\/strong><\/p>\n

Saying \u2018North\u2019 and \u2018South\u2019 in Irish (A Follow-up to the Blogpost on North and South Korea)<\/a>Posted by\u00a0r\u00f3isl\u00edn<\/a>\u00a0on Apr 28, 2018 in\u00a0Irish Language<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n

Nasc don iarbhlagmh\u00edr faoin\u00a0 gC\u00f3ir\u00e9 Thuaidh agus faoin gC\u00f3ir\u00e9 Theas<\/strong>: How to Say \u2018North Korea\u2019 and \u2018South Korea\u2019 in Irish, and Some Other \u2018North\/South\u2019 Combinations<\/a>Posted by\u00a0r\u00f3isl\u00edn<\/a>\u00a0on Feb 21, 2018 in\u00a0Irish Language<\/a><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Naisc faoi cheangailt\u00ed \u00c9ireannacha:<\/strong><\/p>\n

\u00d3 Maoilbhr\u00edde, Se\u00e1n. \u201c\u00c9ireannach in Oirthear Na Gearmaine.\u201d\u00a0Comhar<\/em>, vol. 20, no. 2, 1961, pp. 11\u201314.\u00a0JSTOR<\/em>, JSTOR, www.jstor.org\/stable\/20550939. Comhar<\/em>, vol. 20, no. 2, 1961, pp. 11\u201314.\u00a0JSTOR<\/em>, JSTOR, www.jstor.org\/stable\/20550939.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Dervla Murphy (cnuasach nasc<\/strong>: https:\/\/www.travelbooks.co.uk\/dervla-murphy, cuid acu seo ina measc)<\/p>\n

1) http:\/\/www.bbc.com\/culture\/story\/20150522-ireland-to-india-on-a-bicycle (an-ghairid, nil ann ach 00:02:26, ach is fi\u00fa \u00e9isteacht leis)<\/p>\n

2) p\u00edosa n\u00edos<\/strong> faide (00:06:50): https:\/\/www.travelbooks.co.uk\/dervla-murphy-2\/2017\/6\/24\/the-book-programme<\/p>\n

3) agallamh l\u00e1nfhada<\/strong>: https:\/\/www.travelbooks.co.uk\/dervla-murphy-2\/2017\/6\/24\/desert-island-discs-1993 (00:38:23)<\/p>\n

4) alt scr\u00edofa<\/strong>: https:\/\/www.travelbooks.co.uk\/dervla-murphy-2\/2017\/6\/24\/full-tilting-interview<\/p>\n

5) naisc do 11 leabhar d\u00e1 cuid:<\/strong> https:\/\/www.travelbooks.co.uk\/shop-online-books\/?category=Dervla+Murphy<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"\"\"

(le R\u00f3isl\u00edn) \u00a0 North and South pair up nicely in many parts of the world, as we’ve seen in some recent blogposts here (naisc th\u00edos).\u00a0 Examples included Baile \u00c1tha Cliath Thuaidh \/ Theas, Meirice\u00e1 Thuaidh \/ Theas, and very timely for current events, An Ch\u00f3ir\u00e9 Thuaidh and An Ch\u00f3ir\u00e9 Theas.\u00a0 One pair we didn’t get…<\/p>\n

Continue Reading<\/a><\/p>","protected":false},"author":36,"featured_media":10510,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"content-type":""},"categories":[3898],"tags":[4006,4065,4255,489521,513213,513218,460740,5000,513216,436427,6057,273101,298415,513219,513217,12430,513215,304806,332004,513214,508790,7119,12432,12431],"class_list":["post-10504","post","type-post","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-irish-language","tag-ag-dul","tag-america","tag-baile-atha-cliath","tag-choire","tag-coire","tag-compass","tag-corcaigh","tag-dublin","tag-east","tag-luimneach","tag-meiricea","tag-mol","tag-north","tag-pole","tag-sahara","tag-siar","tag-soir","tag-south","tag-theas","tag-thiar","tag-thoir","tag-thuaidh","tag-west","tag-western"],"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/10504","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/36"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=10504"}],"version-history":[{"count":12,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/10504\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":10518,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/10504\/revisions\/10518"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/10510"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=10504"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=10504"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=10504"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}