{"id":1105,"date":"2011-07-22T15:14:35","date_gmt":"2011-07-22T15:14:35","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/?p=1105"},"modified":"2011-08-04T15:40:24","modified_gmt":"2011-08-04T15:40:24","slug":"logainmneacha-a-thosaionn-le-%e2%80%9can%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%9cthe%e2%80%9d-agus-consan-b-c-d-f-g-m-p-s-t","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/logainmneacha-a-thosaionn-le-%e2%80%9can%e2%80%9d-%e2%80%9cthe%e2%80%9d-agus-consan-b-c-d-f-g-m-p-s-t\/","title":{"rendered":"Logainmneacha a Thosa\u00edonn le \u201cAn\u201d (\u201cthe\u201d) agus Consan (b, c, d, f, g, m, p, s, t)"},"content":{"rendered":"

(le R\u00f3isl\u00edn) <\/strong><\/p>\n

I\u2019m sure geographers and all kinds of political, economic, and cultural analysts have all kinds of ways of categorizing countries, including by daonra, dl\u00fas daonra, cine\u00e1l rialtais, leibh\u00e9al oideachais, ollt\u00e1irgeacht int\u00edre (OTI), st\u00e1das sna N\u00e1isi\u00fain Aontaithe, srl. <\/strong><\/p>\n

However, as you may have noted from the last couple of blogs, and the title of this one, for Irish language practice, the key thing is how the place name happens to be spelled and whether or not it includes the definite article (usually the word \u201can<\/strong>,\u201d for the singular, but occasionally the word \u201cna<\/strong>\u201d for plural or possessive).\u00a0<\/p>\n

As preparation for this blog, I finally did a complete count of *205 nation names around the world, a project I\u2019ve been meaning to do for a while, to see how many start with the definite article (\u201can<\/strong>\u201d or \u201cna<\/strong>\u201d) in Irish.\u00a0 English-speakers, in particular, are often surprised at the use of the definite article with so many place names in Irish, which occurs in slightly over half of country names in Irish (119 out of 205, according to my count).<\/p>\n

In English, as I\u2019ve said in other blogs, using \u201cthe\u201d in a country name is mostly limited to those which incorporate adjectives or are plural, either as part of the main word (The Netherl<\/em>ands) or as a separate word (The United <\/em>States).\u00a0\u00a0 There are, of course, some exceptions even to that (The Vatican), and there were some places which used to have the definite article until recently, but no longer do, at least in American English, due to either change in political status or language conventions.\u00a0 Examples include Ukraine (formerly \u201cThe Ukraine\u201d), Gambia, (formerly \u201cThe Gambia,\u201d and still \u201cThe Gambia\u201d in most UK English, as far as I can tell), and by way of one last example, Punjab (formerly called \u201cThe Punjab\u201d), not that that was a nation as such.\u00a0<\/p>\n

If your native language already uses the definite article with at ;least some country names then this isn\u2019t as surprising.\u00a0 Welsh, for example, says \u201cYr Almaen,\u201d<\/em> \u201cY Ffindir<\/em>,\u201d and \u201cYr Alban<\/em>,\u201d (\u201cthe\u201d Germany, \u201cthe\u201d Finland, \u201cthe\u201d Scotland), but it doesn\u2019t always use the definite article (Lloegr<\/em> [England], Awstria, Ffrainc<\/em>).\u00a0 I see \u201cFrance\u201d referred to in French with and without the definite article (La France,<\/em> but \u201cen France<\/em>\u201d), so that\u2019s certainly a point that a learner would have to address.\u00a0 Probably this discussion could carry on endlessly around the world, with different naming conventions for different languages, including those that don\u2019t use a definite article at all, like Russian, Japanese, and Chinese, and for practical purposes, Latin (though there\u2019s some wiggle-room there, depending on what you call a definite article).\u00a0<\/p>\n

Anyway, the bottom line is that for country names in Irish, over half take the definite article, and that, in turn, changes the way you say \u201cin\u201d a country.\u00a0 By the way, this blog isn\u2019t going to deal with Irish town, village, and townland names that might use the definite article (like An Cheathr\u00fa Rua, An Cloch\u00e1n Liath<\/strong>) or city names like \u201cAn R\u00f3imh<\/strong>\u201d that also take the definite article, simply because there\u2019s not enough room in aon bhlag amh\u00e1in<\/strong>.\u00a0 We\u2019re also not going to deal with the peripatetic definite article that affects Ireland and Scotland sa tuiseal ginideach<\/strong>.\u00a0 That\u2019s \u00e1bhar blag eile<\/strong> also.\u00a0<\/p>\n

So, now down to the brass tacks.\u00a0 Howd\u2019ya use this stuff?<\/p>\n

The basic preposition for \u201cin\u201d in Irish is the single letter \u201ci<\/strong>.\u201d\u00a0 For place names beginning with \u201can<\/strong>\u201d followed by the consonants b, c, d, f, g, h, l, m, n, p, r, s, t, the word \u201ci<\/strong>\u201d changes to \u201csa.<\/strong>\u201d\u00a0 That\u2019s right, \u201ci<\/strong>\u201d becomes \u201csa<\/strong>.\u201d\u00a0 And that\u2019s not as bizarre as it might seem, since \u201ci<\/strong>\u201d is a variant of the word \u201cins<\/strong>,\u201d which also means \u201cin\u201d but which has to be followed by the definite article.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Now we get to subdivide our \u201csa<\/strong> + consonant\u201d list further into the consonants that can take lenition, and those that can\u2019t (or at least don\u2019t show it in writing, I\u2019ll say to satisfy my phonologist friends):<\/p>\n

Let\u2019s start with those that don\u2019t show\/take lenition, since the list is short, involving just the consonants h (rare as an initial, so treated separately here), l, m, and r.. Examples for l, n, and r include \u201csa Liotu\u00e1in<\/strong>,\u201d in (\u201cthe\u201d) Lithuania; \u201csa Namaib<\/strong>,\u201d in (\u201cthe\u201d) Namibia, and sa R\u00fais<\/strong>, in (\u201cthe\u201d) Russia.<\/p>\n

For \u201can<\/strong>\u201d + initial \u201cH,\u201d I only find one country name, usually part of the compound name \u201cAn Bhoisnia agus An Heirseagaiv\u00e9in.\u201d\u00a0 <\/strong>To say \u201cin Herzegovina,\u201d it\u2019s <\/strong>\u201csa Heirseagaiv\u00e9in<\/strong>.\u201d\u00a0 For more on \u201ch,\u201d which is relatively rare as an initial letter in Irish in general, please see an n\u00f3ta <\/strong>below.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Fully lenitable examples will start with the consonants b, c, f, g, m, p, or s; for \u201cd\u201d and \u201ct,\u201d see further below.\u00a0 The \u201cthe<\/em>\u201d part can be understood from here on so I won\u2019t continue to write it.\u00a0 A rough pronunciation guide is in square brackets.<\/p>\n

sa Bheilg<\/strong> [suh VEL-ig], in Belgium (< an Bheilg)<\/p>\n

sa Ch\u00f3ir\u00e9 Theas <\/strong>[suh KHOHRzh<\/sup>-AY hass], in South Korea (< an Ch\u00f3ir\u00e9 Theas)<\/p>\n

sa Fhrainc <\/strong>[suh rank], in France (< an Fhrainc)<\/p>\n

sa Ghearm\u00e1in <\/strong>[suh YAR-maw-in], in Germany (< an Ghearm\u00e1in)<\/p>\n

sa Mhacad\u00f3in <\/strong>[suh WAHK-uh-doh-in], in Macedonia (< an Mhacad\u00f3in)<\/p>\n

sa Pholainn <\/strong>[suh FOL-in], in Poland (< an Pholainn)<\/p>\n

sa Sp\u00e1inn <\/strong>[suh SPAW-in], in Spain, (< an Sp\u00e1inn; no change to \u201csp\u201d because \u201csp\u201d never gets lenited)<\/p>\n

but also note, sa tSile <\/strong>[suh TCHIL-eh], in Chile (because of the \u201cs\u201d-becomes-\u201cts\u201d-instead-of-\u201csh\u201d-in-feminine-singular-nouns-starting-with-\u201cs\u201d+vowel<\/em> rule).\u00a0 The basic form of the country name is \u201cAn tSile<\/strong>.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n

Eisceachta\u00ed<\/strong> to the rialacha<\/strong> so far: As some of you may recall, \u201cd\u201d and \u201ct\u201d resist lenition after \u201cn,\u201d even though they\u2019re lenitable in other circumstances (like \u201cmo dheirfi\u00far<\/strong>\u201d or \u201cmo theach<\/strong>\u201d).\u00a0\u00a0 So we have:<\/p>\n

sa Danmhairg<\/strong>, in Denmark (< an Danmhairg<\/strong>, no change to \u201cDanmhairg<\/strong>\u201d)<\/p>\n

sa Tuirc<\/strong>, in Turkey (< an Tuirc<\/strong>, no change to \u201cTuirc<\/strong>\u201d)<\/p>\n

At this point, I expect to hear \u201cwhat \u2018n\u2019 are you talking about that causes d and t resistance?\u201d\u00a0 Well, it\u2019s become invisible.\u00a0 The original \u201cn\u201d of the \u201can<\/strong>\u201d in the place names \u201cAn Danmhairg<\/strong>\u201d and \u201cAn Tuirc<\/strong>\u201d still affects these structures, since we\u2019re essentially saying \u201cins an Danmhairg<\/strong>\u201d and \u201cins an Tuirc<\/strong>,\u201d shortened to \u201csa Danmhairg<\/strong>\u201d and \u201csa Tuirc<\/strong>.\u201d<\/p>\n

There are no examples of modern country names that start with \u201can<\/strong>\u201d (the) plus j, k, q, v, w, x, y, or z in Irish.\u00a0 No, not even Qatar, which is \u201cCatar<\/strong>\u201d in Irish.\u00a0 Nor Vanuat\u00fa, Veinis\u00e9ala<\/strong> or V\u00edtneam<\/strong>, since they don\u2019t take the definite article (\u201can<\/strong>\u201d).\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n

What about \u201csa<\/strong>\u201d plus countries whose names begin with vowels (like An Ostair<\/strong>).\u00a0 \u00c1bhar blag eile<\/strong>, but the clue is, we could say, very in-n-n-n-n-teresting.\u00a0<\/p>\n

A few final disclaimers for this blog \u2013 I\u2019ve only attempted to look at modern country names, not all the historical possiblities, like Rhodesia or Siam.\u00a0 That would be a huge undertaking, interesting in its own right, but not as applicable for most of our immediate purposes, which probably include saying where we live or where we\u2019re going on vacation.\u00a0 Also not covered in today\u2019s blog, but maybe eventually — districts, regions, mountain ranges, rivers, imaginary lands (that sounds like fun), or the various cr\u00edocha, cosant\u00f3ireachta\u00ed<\/strong>, and sple\u00e1chr\u00edocha, srl<\/strong>., which exist around the world.\u00a0 Oh, and also not covered yet, plural definite articles (as in \u201cNa St\u00e1it Aontaithe<\/strong>\u201d or place names with the definite article in the middle (Poblacht na Seice, m. sh.<\/strong>), so lots more to come.\u00a0 Oh (faoi dh\u00f3<\/strong>), also not covered here: island nations whose names start with \u201cOile\u00e1n<\/strong>\u201d or \u201cOile\u00e1in<\/strong>,\u201d since, well, since they usually have the definite article in English (the Solomon Islands) but not in Irish (Oile\u00e1in Sholom\u00f3n<\/strong>).\u00a0 Can I finally exhale now?<\/p>\n

Guess not.\u00a0 Also not covered here, full official names of countries like \u201cCommonwealth of \u2026,\u201d or \u201cFederated States of \u2026 .\u201d\u00a0 That would probably go beyond most readers\u2019 needs, so unless there are specific requests, we\u2019ll let that rest.\u00a0 I will, though, eventually cover the small group of place names for which \u201cRepublic of \u2026\u201d or some such term is the official \u201cshort\u201d version of the country name (once again, Poblacht na Seice, srl<\/strong>.)<\/p>\n

Now, having said all that, anyone else care to answer the question, \u201cC\u00e1 bhfuil t\u00fa i do ch\u00f3na\u00ed<\/strong>?\u201d\u00a0 T\u00e1\u00a0\u00a0\"\"<\/a><\/strong>@m that we\u2019ll have some more takers.\u00a0 SGF, \u00f3 R\u00f3isl\u00edn<\/strong><\/p>\n

N\u00f3ta faoin Litir \u201cH\u201d:<\/strong> we have \u201cH\u00e1\u00edt\u00ed\u201d<\/strong> and \u201cHond\u00faras<\/strong>,\u201d with no definite article.\u00a0\u00a0 We have \u201cHungary\u201d losing its \u201cH\u201d in \u201cAn Ung\u00e1ir<\/strong>,\u201d as does the region \u201cHolland\u201d (An Ollainn<\/strong>).\u00a0 But we do have \u201cAn H\u00e1ig<\/strong>,\u201d which, however, is a city, and once again, not our focus here.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Gluais: dl\u00fas,<\/strong> density; ollt\u00e1irgeacht,<\/strong> gross product<\/p>\n

N\u00f3ta faoin r\u00e9abas<\/strong>: the\u00a0\"\"<\/a><\/strong>\u00a0(eye) stands for \u201cs\u00fail<\/strong>,\u201d which in Irish means both \u201ceye\u201d and \u201chope.\u201d<\/p>\n

*205: my count of 205 country names includes some that are disputed.\u00a0 But even if these were disregarded, the overall proportion of \u201cdefinite article\u201d names to \u201cnon-definite article\u201d names would be about the same, meaning we need to apply lenition about half the time, in talking about country names.\u00a0 For the remaining half of the time, we often apply eclipsis (ur\u00fa<\/strong>).\u00a0 And wedged in there, sometimes, we don\u2019t have to apply any rule, like when we need to say \u201ci Madagascar<\/strong>.\u201d<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"\"\"

(le R\u00f3isl\u00edn) I\u2019m sure geographers and all kinds of political, economic, and cultural analysts have all kinds of ways of categorizing countries, including by daonra, dl\u00fas daonra, cine\u00e1l rialtais, leibh\u00e9al oideachais, ollt\u00e1irgeacht int\u00edre (OTI), st\u00e1das sna N\u00e1isi\u00fain Aontaithe, srl. However, as you may have noted from the last couple of blogs, and the title of…<\/p>\n

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