{"id":1134,"date":"2011-08-02T11:13:09","date_gmt":"2011-08-02T11:13:09","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/?p=1134"},"modified":"2015-04-07T17:55:53","modified_gmt":"2015-04-07T17:55:53","slug":"the-curious-case-of-duitseach-ollannach-isiltireach-an-afterthought-re-logainmneacha","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/the-curious-case-of-duitseach-ollannach-isiltireach-an-afterthought-re-logainmneacha\/","title":{"rendered":"The Curious Case of D\u00faitseach-Ollannach-\u00cdsilt\u00edreach (An Afterthought re: Logainmneacha)"},"content":{"rendered":"

(le R\u00f3isl\u00edn)<\/strong><\/p>\n

After all this talk in recent blogs about singulars and plurals, and \u201csa<\/strong>\u2019s\u201d and \u201csan<\/strong>\u2019s\u201d and \u201csna<\/strong>\u2019s,\u201d one might wonder, what\u2019s the deal with “the Netherlands” \u2013 in Irish, of course. Perhaps all the more so since there are some ancient Celtic connections to the area now known as the Netherlands, like the Celtic coin hoards found in the last few years in Echt (Limburg) and the Amby area (Maastricht). And also because I\u2019m sure we have some readers from the Netherlands on this list, at least based on the Easter Rabbit ear discussion of about a year ago (nasc th\u00edos<\/strong>), which I see got translated into \u201cOllainnis<\/strong>\u201d in another website.<\/p>\n

Here are the key terms and phrases, with a similar tripartite dilemma to that which exists in English, with the overlapping terms “Holland,” “Dutch,” and “Netherlands.”<\/p>\n

the country: An \u00cdsilt\u00edr<\/strong><\/p>\n

in the Netherlands: san \u00cdsilt\u00edr<\/strong><\/p>\n

Despite the fact that the English word appears plural, with the \u201c-s\u201d ending (Netherlands), the Irish word is singular, so we use \u201csan<\/strong>\u201d not \u201csna<\/strong>.\u201d In this regard, the Irish is more like the native name for the country, Nederland, which is singular.<\/p>\n

\u201cHolland\u201d as a geographical term: An Ollainn<\/strong><\/p>\n

in Holland: san Ollainn<\/strong> (sa<\/strong> becomes san<\/strong> since Ollainn<\/strong> starts with a vowel)<\/p>\n

South Holland, the province: an Ollainn Theas<\/strong><\/p>\n

in South Holland: san Ollainn Theas<\/strong><\/p>\n

North Holland, the province: an Ollainn Thuaidh<\/strong><\/p>\n

in North Holland: san Ollainn<\/strong> Thuaidh<\/strong><\/p>\n

the language: usually \u201cOllainnis<\/strong>,\u201d which literally is a little more like saying \u201cHollandish,\u201d not that we really say \u201cHollandish\u201d very much in English, at least not in my experience. \u201cHollandaise,\u201d maybe, for anlainn<\/strong> (sauces), ach sin sc\u00e9al eile<\/strong>, and remains as \u201cHollandaise\u201d in Irish (anlann<\/strong> Hollandaise<\/strong>).<\/p>\n

Netherlanders call their language \u201cNederlands,\u201d with the \u201c-s\u201d ending functioning similarly to the \u201c-ese\u201d or \u201c-ish\u201d endings we find with other language names in English (Japanese, Spanish, etc.). The more logical name in Irish is \u201c\u00cdsilt\u00edris<\/strong>,\u201d which is sometimes used, but mostly, it seems, in online sites that\u00a0copy from each other. Most Irish speakers, when talking about \u201cDutch\u201d speakers, say \u201cOllainnis<\/strong>,\u201d again, at least in my experience.<\/p>\n

the nationality: technically, \u201c\u00cdsilt\u00edreach<\/strong>,\u201d more like saying \u201cNetherlander.\u201d Also in use are \u201cD\u00faitseach<\/strong>\u201d (a Dutchman) and \u201cOllannach<\/strong>,\u201d literally a \u201cHollander,\u201d which should, I suppose, mean someone from An Ollainn Theas<\/strong> or An Ollainn Thuaidh<\/strong>, but is often used more generally, like \u201cDutch\u201d is in English. \u201cDutch,\u201d is of course, the real misnomer in this situation, being based on the word \u201cDeutsch.\u201d<\/p>\n

The issue persists in Pennsylvania, where an enormous tourist industry is built up around the \u201cPennsylvania Dutch\u201d concept, even though the original settlers were Swiss-German. Locally, the actual Swiss-German descendants call their language \u201cDeitsch\u201d or some variation thereof, and calling it \u201cPennsylvania German\u201d is often considered pedantic. There are also related words, like simply calling the Lancaster County, Pa., accent \u201cDutchy.\u201d<\/p>\n

the adjective: usage depends on context, formality, and in some cases, I think, simply tradition<\/p>\n

Early Netherlandish and Flemish painting: Luathph\u00e9int\u00e9ireacht \u00cdsilt\u00edreach agus Phl\u00e9imeannach<\/strong> (from Ireland\u2019s National Gallery\u2019s website, leagan Gaeilge<\/strong>; http:\/\/www.nationalgallery.ie<\/a>)<\/p>\n

Dutch painting: P\u00e9int\u00e9ireacht Dh\u00faitseach<\/strong> (also from the National Gallery\u2019s website, leagan Gaeilge<\/strong>) I guess I\u2019ll have to brush up on my art history to fully understand the difference between Netherlandish and Dutch painting.<\/p>\n

Dutch elm disease: galar D\u00faitseach leamh\u00e1n<\/strong><\/p>\n

Dutch auction: ceant Ollannach<\/strong><\/p>\n

Netherlands guilder: guilder \u00cdsilt\u00edreach<\/strong>, but we also have Dutch guilder: gildear na hOllainne<\/strong> (lit. guilder of Holland)<\/p>\n

Dutch lop-eared rabbit: coin\u00edn spadchluasach D\u00faitseach<\/strong> (now how did the rabbit get to be called \u201cDutch\u201d? \u2013 N\u00edl a fhios agam<\/strong>!)<\/p>\n

“Dutch gin” doesn\u2019t use the word \u201cDutch\u201d at all: Gin\u00e9iv<\/strong><\/p>\n

I guess that just about sums it up, at least as far as the terminology goes. As for all the whys and wherefores of it, frankly, I\u2019ve always found it a bit baffling, why we have so many overlapping terms. \u201cFrankly?\u201d Hmm, maybe sometime I should make that word \u00e1bhar blag eile<\/strong> (Frankish, French, to be frank, to frank, lingua franca, etc.) — lots of food for terminological thought there too! SGF, \u00f3 R\u00f3isl\u00edn<\/strong><\/p>\n

Naisc:\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/that%E2%80%99s-the-way-the-easter-bunny-goes-%E2%80%93-cluas-i-ndiaidh-cluaise-using-the-irish-verb-%E2%80%9Cto-eat%E2%80%9D\/ (9 Aibre\u00e1n 2010)<\/strong><\/p>\n

agus an sc\u00e9al leantach<\/strong>:\u00a0https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/thats-the-way-the-easter-bilby-goes-cluas-i-ndiaidh-cluaise-using-the-irish-verb-to-eat\/ (10 Aibre\u00e1n 2012<\/strong>)<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

(le R\u00f3isl\u00edn) After all this talk in recent blogs about singulars and plurals, and \u201csa\u2019s\u201d and \u201csan\u2019s\u201d and \u201csna\u2019s,\u201d one might wonder, what\u2019s the deal with “the Netherlands” \u2013 in Irish, of course. Perhaps all the more so since there are some ancient Celtic connections to the area now known as the Netherlands, like the…<\/p>\n

Continue Reading<\/a><\/p>","protected":false},"author":36,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"content-type":""},"categories":[3898],"tags":[307137,11094,1911,4620,8166,2021,376680,2072,307133,376681,8160,5042,307136,306109,376685,191093,376679,376677,307139,376676,307135,376675,5924,27605,376684,10149,376687,290050,307134,974,374764,6645,6674,6861,332004,7119],"class_list":["post-1134","post","type-post","status-publish","hentry","category-irish-language","tag-amby","tag-anlann","tag-auction","tag-celtic","tag-cluas","tag-coin","tag-deitsch","tag-disease","tag-duitseach","tag-dutchy","tag-ear","tag-easter-rabbit","tag-echt","tag-elm","tag-flemish","tag-gin","tag-gineiv","tag-guilder","tag-hoard","tag-hollandaise","tag-isiltireach","tag-isiltiris","tag-logainmneacha","tag-maastricht","tag-netherlandish","tag-netherlands","tag-ollainn","tag-ollainnis","tag-ollannach","tag-pennsylvania-dutch","tag-pennsylvania-german","tag-sa","tag-san","tag-sna","tag-theas","tag-thuaidh"],"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1134","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/36"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1134"}],"version-history":[{"count":13,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1134\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":6560,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1134\/revisions\/6560"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1134"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1134"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1134"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}