{"id":3346,"date":"2012-10-15T15:24:56","date_gmt":"2012-10-15T15:24:56","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/?p=3346"},"modified":"2012-10-26T17:46:01","modified_gmt":"2012-10-26T17:46:01","slug":"bigi-ciuin-ba-e-an-cat-e-or-should-that-be-ba-iad-na-deich-gcat-dhubha-iad","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/bigi-ciuin-ba-e-an-cat-e-or-should-that-be-ba-iad-na-deich-gcat-dhubha-iad\/","title":{"rendered":"B\u00edg\u00ed Ci\u00fain! Ba \u00e9 an cat \u00e9! Or Should That Be “Ba Iad Na Deich gCat Dhubha Iad”?"},"content":{"rendered":"

(le R\u00f3isl\u00edn)<\/strong><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>

"M\u00ed-eadha!" a deir an cat dubh<\/p><\/div>\n

Just when you may have thought there couldn’t possibly be any more rialacha<\/strong> for comhaireamh<\/strong> in Irish, there is at least one more point to be addressed — the use of adjectives with the nouns being counted (e.g. two big dogs, five small cats).<\/p>\n

Given the season, let’s count black cats.\u00a0 As you’ll see, the word “black” changes substantially from when you’re simply saying “a black cat” (cat dubh<\/strong>).\u00a0 After the numbers, the adjective gets the plural ending (usually “-a” or “-e”), and if it starts with a lenitable consonant, it gets lenited (d becoming dh).\u00a0 This is true even though the noun itself (“cat<\/strong>“) has stayed singular.\u00a0 So “dubh<\/strong>” will change to “dhubha<\/strong>.”\u00a0 Unlike most European languages, gender as such doesn’t come into play here. \u00a0The basic pattern is: number + noun, singular, lenited or eclipsed as necessary + adjective, with lenition and plural ending.\u00a0 Or in a nutshell, “dh\u00e1 chat dhubha<\/strong>,” as opposed to “cat dubh<\/strong>” (a black cat) or “na cait dhubha<\/strong>” (the black cats).<\/p>\n

Some adjectives, of course, like “uaine<\/strong>,” do not begin with a consonant, so can’t be lenited.\u00a0 And some adjectives, of course, like “uaine<\/strong>” and other “a3” category adjectives (“fada,” mar shampla<\/strong>), don’t have a plural ending (because they already end in a vowel).\u00a0 So “uaine<\/strong>” wouldn’t change in any of these phrases: cat uaine, cait uaine, dh\u00e1 chat uaine<\/strong>.\u00a0 Of course, you’re less likely to talk about “cait uaine<\/strong>” than about “cait dhubha<\/strong>,” because “uaine<\/strong>” means “green,” usually referring to man-made objects.\u00a0 So a “cat uaine<\/strong>” would probably be a toy cat, d\u00e9anta as pluis n\u00f3 as plaisteach<\/strong>, or some such material.<\/p>\n

Ar aon chaoi, tos\u00f3idh muid ag comhaireamh cat<\/strong>.\u00a0 Hmmm, next time maybe I should do “counting crows.”\u00a0 Equally good practice and equally “tr\u00e1th\u00fail<\/strong>” (seasonal).<\/p>\n

cat dubh amh\u00e1in<\/strong> [kaht duv uh-WAW-in], one black cat (no changes yet to “cat” or “black” when there’s still just one)<\/p>\n

dh\u00e1 chat dhubha<\/strong>, two black cats.\u00a0 But wait, there’s more:<\/p>\n

Here are two full paragraphs of pronunciation tips for “dh\u00e1 chat dhubha<\/strong>“! \u00a0Two voiced velar fricatives and one voiceless one coming up!\u00a0 “\u03b3aw khaht \u03b3UV-uh].\u00a0 Mionrud faoin gcomhartha “<\/strong>\u03b3<\/strong>” (gamma) sin th\u00edos<\/strong>, plus a link to more info on pronouncing this “dh” sound.\u00a0 Bottom line, the “d” itself is not pronounced, and it’s not at all like the “dh-” in “Dharma<\/em>,” whether you give it the full Sanskrit treatment or the relaxed American approach, the latter most likely being the same “d” used, for example, in “darn” (as in “darning socks,” a more-or-less lost art, by the way–but I still have “ceap dearn\u00e1la mo sheanmh\u00e1thar<\/strong>“).\u00a0 My guess is that most Americans discussing “Dharma and Greg” or Kerouac’s “Dharma Bums” probably resorted to an English-based “d” sound.\u00a0 But I’d love to be proven wrong about that.<\/p>\n

As for the “ch,” the voiceless velar fricative, we’ve been through it before in early blogs sa tsraith seo<\/strong>, but once again, it’s like the “ch” in “Chutzpah,” German “Buch<\/em>,” Welsh “bach<\/em>,” Hebrew, Arabic, and no doubt a l\u00e1n teangacha eile<\/strong>.\u00a0 In other words, not like the “ch” in “child” or French “chez<\/em>” or “chat<\/em>” (suimi\u00fail<\/strong>, though, isn’t it, how similar lenited Irish “chat<\/strong>” and the French “chat<\/em>” look?)<\/p>\n

And now, ar ais go dt\u00ed an comhaireamh<\/strong>!\u00a0 And the good news?\u00a0 The above notes about the voiced and voiceless velar fricatives will serve you for the rest of our counting spree!<\/p>\n

tr\u00ed chat dhubha<\/strong> [trzhee khaht \u03b3UV-uh], three black cats.\u00a0 And by the way, I’m using “kaht” and “khaht” as a reminder that although they look similar, Irish “cat<\/strong>” (with an “ah” sound) and English “cat” (with an “\u00e6” sound) aren’t pronounced the same.<\/p>\n

ceithre chat dhubha<\/strong> [KYEH-rzhuh khaht …], four black cats (from here on, I’ll stop repeating ” \u03b3UV-uh,” since it won’t change any further]<\/p>\n

c\u00faig chat dhubha<\/strong> [KOO-ig khaht …], five black cats<\/p>\n

s\u00e9 chat dhubha<\/strong> [shay khaht …], six black cats<\/p>\n

seacht gcat dhubha<\/strong> [shakht gaht …], seven black cats.\u00a0 Note the change to “gc” due to eclipsis.<\/p>\n

ocht gcat dhubha<\/strong> [okht gaht …], eight black cats<\/p>\n

naoi gcat dhubha<\/strong> [nee gaht …], nine black cats<\/p>\n

deich gcat dhubha<\/strong> [djeh gaht …], ten black cats.<\/p>\n

Of course, the Gilbert and Sullivan quote used in the title of this blog (in English, originally) actually referred to a cat o’ nine tails, which is Irish would be “lasc na naoi gcraobh<\/strong>” (lit. whip of the nine branches), which would definitely be a mouthful to count in Irish.\u00a0 But not so bad really (naoi lasc na naoi gcraobh<\/strong>).\u00a0 Say that deich n-uaire (10 times) chomh tapaidh agus is f\u00e9idir leat!\u00a0 <\/strong><\/p>\n

Anyway, sin agaibh cait dhubha go leor!\u00a0 M\u00ed-\u00e1dh<\/strong> [mee-aw]!\u00a0 Or should that be “M\u00ed-eadha<\/strong> [mee-ow]!\u00a0 M\u00ed-eadha<\/strong>!”<\/p>\n

Gluais\u00edn\u00edn don abairt dheireanach<\/strong>: m\u00ed-\u00e1dh<\/strong>, bad luck; m\u00ed-eadha<\/strong>, meow.\u00a0 What a coincidence!<\/p>\n

N\u00f3ta faoin gcomhartha<\/strong> “gamma”: I can’t actually make it upper case here, to match the use of upper-case for stressed syllables, because that would be a different Greek letter.\u00a0 And if I just make the “\u03b3” extra large, it would skew the spacing.\u00a0 Normally these IPA symbols aren’t used in conjunction with an English-based pronunciation guide, so normally there’s no issue whatsoever.\u00a0 But there’s no clear-cut way to represent the sound of standard Irish “dh\u00e1<\/strong>” in Roman letters (aka the “voiced velar fricative”), so I have to resort to IPA.\u00a0 Hmmm, I should check–I wonder if there’s a voiced velar fricative sa teanga Tliong\u00e1inise.\u00a0 Eolas agaibh, a Threkies?<\/strong>\u00a0 So maybe some of you have practiced the sound there.\u00a0 Or sa teanga Eabhraise<\/strong> (but only Yemenite Hebrew, or so Wikipedia tells me).\u00a0 Or sa teanga Araibise.\u00a0 Agus Seap\u00e1inis<\/strong>, Navach\u00f3is,<\/strong> Ollainnis, Portaing\u00e9ilis (can\u00faint\u00ed \u00e1irithe) agus roinnt teangacha eile.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Blaganna ina bhfuil tr\u00e1cht ar<\/strong> “voiced and\/or voiceless velar fricatives” (pronunciation):\u00a0https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/saying-i-love-you-in-irish\/<\/a>\u00a0(Saying “I love you” in Irish and Minding Your Velar Fricatives”)<\/p>\n

https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/treoir-don-treoir-a-guide-to-the-guide-for-pronunciation-cuid-a-3\/<\/a><\/p>\n

https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/treoir-don-treoir-a-guide-to-the-guide-for-pronunciation-cuid-a-2\/<\/a><\/p>\n

<\/h2>\n

 <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"\"\"

(le R\u00f3isl\u00edn) Just when you may have thought there couldn’t possibly be any more rialacha for comhaireamh in Irish, there is at least one more point to be addressed — the use of adjectives with the nouns being counted (e.g. two big dogs, five small cats). Given the season, let’s count black cats.\u00a0 As you’ll…<\/p>\n

Continue Reading<\/a><\/p>","protected":false},"author":36,"featured_media":3353,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"content-type":""},"categories":[3898],"tags":[254997,17,3138,255009,254998,255004,255006,4999,255005,8667,5322,255003,255008,254996,5667,5878,255000,254999,255001,255007,11,111217,111218,111219],"class_list":["post-3346","post","type-post","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-irish-language","tag-10-black-cats","tag-adjectives","tag-cardinal","tag-cat-o-nine-tails","tag-cats-meow","tag-chat","tag-dhubha","tag-dubh","tag-dubha","tag-eclipsis","tag-gamma","tag-gcat","tag-gilbert-and-sullivan","tag-how-to-count","tag-irish","tag-lenition","tag-mi-eadha","tag-mi-eadha-an-chait","tag-numbers-in-irish","tag-pinafore","tag-pronunciation","tag-velar-fricative","tag-voiced","tag-voiceless"],"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3346","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/36"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3346"}],"version-history":[{"count":7,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3346\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":3352,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3346\/revisions\/3352"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/3353"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3346"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3346"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3346"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}