{"id":352,"date":"2010-08-17T12:14:25","date_gmt":"2010-08-17T12:14:25","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/?p=352"},"modified":"2010-08-18T16:07:16","modified_gmt":"2010-08-18T16:07:16","slug":"more-irish-pronunciation-notes-broad-and-slender-%e2%80%9cb%e2%80%9d-sounds","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/more-irish-pronunciation-notes-broad-and-slender-%e2%80%9cb%e2%80%9d-sounds\/","title":{"rendered":"More Irish Pronunciation Notes: Broad and Slender \u201cB\u201d Sounds"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Getting back to the pronunciation series that was started a few blogs ago, there are a few more points I\u2019d like to add.\u00a0 As I said before, what I\u2019m doing here is primarily explaining the transcription system that I use, not attempting to account for every possible sound or variation of a sound in Irish or every possible way of transcribing it.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>As I\u2019ve also said before, I realize that the\u00a0most precise\u00a0system is the International Phonetic Alphabet, but even that presents the dilemma of whether to use the original IPA or the Irish-modified version.\u00a0 And for most learners, at least the students I\u2019ve had over the years, a rough guide based on English is much more graspable.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>The problem, of course, with using the sounds of English as a guide is that English is full of multiple ways to spell the same sound.\u00a0 Here\u2019s a set of examples I recently culled from the Internet to explain the pronunciation of \u201cCaique,\u201d as in the Caique parrot: kigh-eek, kah-eek, kai-eek, kai-EEK, ky-eek and kye-eek (the latter two used interchangeably in the same website).\u00a0 To complicate matters, those are just for one approach; some people apparently just pronounce the word like \u201ccake.\u201d\u00a0 But the main point is that in the relatively specialized world of Caique parrot aficionados, six transcription systems have been used. I\u2019ve been trying to keep mine, for Irish, consistent.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>At any rate, from time to time I explain the system I\u2019m using, but if I did that every time it would take up at least half the blog, so I hope people can refer back to the other pronunciation blogs if there\u2019s a question.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>And finally, getting to the sounds I wanted to discuss in today\u2019s blog \u2013 the broad and slender \u201cb.\u201d\u00a0 While there are basically two sounds involved here, one could see them as four sounds: there\u2019s a regular broad \u201cb\u201d in words like \u201c<strong>bata<\/strong>\u201d (stick), \u201c<strong>bog<\/strong>\u201d (soft), and \u201c<strong>bus<\/strong>\u201d (bus), as discussed previously.\u00a0 But in front of certain vowel combinations, the broad \u201cb\u201d becomes, well, broader.\u00a0 This is especially typical with the vowel clusters \u201cao,\u201d \u201caoi,\u201d and \u201cu\u00ed,\u201d as in the following:\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong>bu\u00ed<\/strong> [bwee], yellow<\/p>\n<p><strong>baoi<\/strong> [bwee], a buoy<\/p>\n<p><strong>baoth<\/strong> [bwee], foolish, vain; the silent \u201cth\u201d at the end of the word you might recognize as par for the course by now<\/p>\n<p>Likewise, <strong>baol<\/strong> (danger), <strong>baoite<\/strong> (bait), <strong>baothghal\u00e1nta<\/strong> (snobbish), <strong>bu\u00edoch<\/strong> (thankful), <strong>bu\u00edochas<\/strong> (thanks), and <strong>bu\u00edon<\/strong> (band, troop).\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>For these sounds, I\u2019m simply using the \u201cw\u201d after the \u201cb\u201d in the transcription to get the effect.\u00a0 I can\u2019t say I can think of any English words that start with this sound, except maybe borrowed words such as the Swahili \u201c<em>bwana<\/em>\u201d and French \u201c<em>bois<\/em>\u201d as in \u201cfaux bois garden furniture.\u201d\u00a0 And that actual French \u201cbois\u201d doesn\u2019t include W. E. B. Du Bois or Boise, Idaho, at least not in their usual American pronunciations.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Why <strong>trosc\u00e1n gaird\u00edn<\/strong> needs to be described as &#8220;faux bois&#8221;\u00a0at all is an issue I&#8217;ll leave to the <strong>marg<strong>\u00f3<\/strong>iri<\/strong>.\u00a0\u00a0 Or maybe the <strong>maisitheoir\u00ed int\u00ed<\/strong>.\u00a0 \u00a0<\/p>\n<p>And now for the slender \u201cb\u201d (appearing adjacent to the vowels \u201ce\u201d and \u201ci\u201d).\u00a0 In a previous blog, I discussed the slender Irish \u201cb\u201d as in <strong>bi\u00far\u00f3<\/strong> [B<sup>y<\/sup>OO-roh], bureau, and<strong> b\u2019fhi\u00fa \u00e9 \u2026<\/strong> [b<sup>y<\/sup>oo ay, \u201cfh\u201d is silent], it would be worth (it).\u00a0 As I mentioned in that blog, I mark these \u201cb\u201d sounds with the superscript \u201cy.\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019d describe these slender \u201cb\u201d sounds as quite slender.\u00a0 It resembles the \u201cb\u201d in English \u201cbeauty\u201d (as opposed to \u201cbooty,\u201d which we\u2019ve been through before).\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Other examples that I\u2019d say have a particularly slender \u201cb\u201d are:<\/p>\n<p><strong>beo<\/strong> [b<sup>y<\/sup>oh], alive<\/p>\n<p><strong>beoir<\/strong> [b<sup>y<\/sup>ohr<sup>zh<\/sup>], beer<\/p>\n<p>But there\u2019s also a \u201cslender b\u201d that\u2019s not quite as articulated, and that appears in words like:<\/p>\n<p><strong>bean<\/strong> [ban] woman<\/p>\n<p><strong>beirt<\/strong> [bertch] two people<\/p>\n<p><strong>beiri\u00fa<\/strong> [BER<sup>ZH<\/sup>-yoo] to boil, boiling<\/p>\n<p><strong>b\u00e9ir\u00edn<\/strong> [BAYR<sup>zh<\/sup>-een], little bear<\/p>\n<p><strong>biong\u00f3<\/strong> [BING-goh], bingo<\/p>\n<p>There\u2019s still a subtle distinction here, in comparison to the broad \u201cb\u201d but it\u2019s not as salient, so I don\u2019t transcribe it in the phonetic guide.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Much of this seeming variation between the broad and slender sounds really has to do with the specific vowels that come after the consonant involved, rather than representing a different consonant pronunciation.\u00a0 But the effect is create some variety in the best way to transcribe the sounds.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>The good news about these subtle distinctions is that they\u2019ll be repeated with the letters f, m, and p (<strong>na consain dh\u00e9liopacha eile<\/strong>).\u00a0 Please stay tuned for more examples.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>By the way, I also realize that not all readers of this blog are native English speakers but since the blog is <strong>d\u00e1theangach (cuid i nGaeilge agus cuid i mB\u00e9arla),<\/strong> I\u2019m assuming most of the English-based references are reasonably useful.\u00a0 At any rate, I get a lot of requests for more pronunciation information, and quite a few thanks as well, so it must be working.\u00a0 Ultimately, of course, the goal is for learners to see Irish words and not need a pronunciation guide <strong>ar chor ar bith<\/strong> but that seems to take longer for Irish than with some other languages.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Gluais: d\u00e1theangach,<\/strong> bilingual; <strong>d\u00e9liopach<\/strong> [DJAY-LIP-ukh] bilabial, as in consonant pronunciation; lenited and plural, this becomes <strong>dh\u00e9liopacha<\/strong> [YAY-LIP-ukh-uh]; <strong>maisitheoir<\/strong>, decorator; <strong>marg\u00f3ir<\/strong>, marketer<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Getting back to the pronunciation series that was started a few blogs ago, there are a few more points I\u2019d like to add.\u00a0 As I said before, what I\u2019m doing here is primarily explaining the transcription system that I use, not attempting to account for every possible sound or variation of a sound in Irish&hellip;<\/p>\n<p class=\"post-item__readmore\"><a class=\"btn btn--md\" href=\"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/more-irish-pronunciation-notes-broad-and-slender-%e2%80%9cb%e2%80%9d-sounds\/\">Continue Reading<\/a><\/p>","protected":false},"author":36,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"content-type":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[10746,10740,10719,1917,10712,10718,10717,10714,10720,10766,4301,1926,1928,10752,10749,4329,10745,4337,10758,10757,4374,10754,10767,4415,10750,10728,10731,10744,7344,10708,10694,4490,10721,10723,10724,10713,10739,1020,10727,10711,10701,10702,10755,4901,10756,10761,10759,10734,10729,10715,287,10732,10697,5663,10693,10698,10741,10704,10705,10703,10706,10707,10753,10760,10736,10762,10735,2294,10700,10699,10737,10742,10726,10722,10751,10696,7170,10764,10765,10725,10733,10748,10716,10710,10730,10747,7664],"class_list":["post-352","post","type-post","status-publish","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-alive","tag-bfhiu-e","tag-bait","tag-band","tag-baoi","tag-baoite","tag-baol","tag-baoth","tag-baothghalanta","tag-bata","tag-bean","tag-beauty","tag-beer","tag-beirin","tag-beiriu","tag-beirt","tag-beo","tag-beoir","tag-bilabial","tag-bilingual-deliopach","tag-bingo","tag-biongo","tag-biuro","tag-bog","tag-boiling","tag-bois","tag-boise","tag-booty","tag-borrowed-words","tag-broad-b","tag-broad-and-slender-b","tag-bui","tag-buioch","tag-buiochas-thanks","tag-buion","tag-buoy","tag-bureau","tag-bus","tag-bwana","tag-bwee","tag-caique","tag-caique-parrot","tag-consain-dheliopacha","tag-danger","tag-datheangach-pronunciation-guide","tag-decorator","tag-dheliopacha","tag-faux-bois","tag-faux-bois-garden-furniture","tag-foolish","tag-french","tag-idaho","tag-international-phonetic-alphabet","tag-ipa","tag-irish-pronunciation","tag-irish-modified-ipa","tag-it-would-be-worth-it","tag-kah-eek","tag-kai-eek","tag-kigh-eek","tag-ky-eek","tag-kye-eek","tag-little-bear","tag-maisitheoir","tag-maisitheoiri-inti","tag-margoir","tag-margoiri","tag-market","tag-multiple-ways-to-spell-the-same-sound","tag-rough-guide","tag-slender-b","tag-superscript-y","tag-swahili","tag-thankful","tag-to-boil","tag-transcribing","tag-transcription","tag-treoir","tag-treoir-don-treoir","tag-troop","tag-troscan-gairdin","tag-two-people","tag-vain","tag-vowel-clusters","tag-w-e-b-du-bois","tag-woman","tag-yellow"],"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/352","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/36"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=352"}],"version-history":[{"count":10,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/352\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":359,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/352\/revisions\/359"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=352"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=352"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=352"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}