{"id":4887,"date":"2014-01-29T18:01:36","date_gmt":"2014-01-29T18:01:36","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/?p=4887"},"modified":"2016-10-02T15:45:30","modified_gmt":"2016-10-02T15:45:30","slug":"apostles-mill-clappers-and-zodiac-signs-and-the-common-thread-is-the-number-12","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/apostles-mill-clappers-and-zodiac-signs-and-the-common-thread-is-the-number-12\/","title":{"rendered":"Apostles, Mill-Clappers, and Zodiac Signs (And The Common Thread Is &#8230; the Number 12)"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><b style=\"line-height: 1.5em\">(le R\u00f3isl\u00edn)<\/b><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/17\/2014\/01\/12-on-green-background.jpg\" aria-label=\"12 On Green Background\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignleft size-full wp-image-4889\"  alt=\"12 on green background\" width=\"225\" height=\"225\" \/ src=\"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/17\/2014\/01\/12-on-green-background.jpg\" srcset=\"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/17\/2014\/01\/12-on-green-background.jpg 225w, https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/17\/2014\/01\/12-on-green-background-150x150.jpg 150w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 225px) 100vw, 225px\" \/><\/a>You may have noticed that both &#8220;<b>dh\u00e9ag<\/b>&#8221; and &#8220;<b>d\u00e9ag<\/b>&#8221; were used in the last blog title<strong> (nasc th\u00edos)<\/strong>.\u00a0 For &#8220;twelve animals,&#8221; we said &#8220;<b>dh\u00e1 ainmh\u00ed dh\u00e9ag<\/b>&#8221; with the lenited form &#8220;<b>dh\u00e9ag<\/b>&#8221; [yayg].\u00a0 For &#8220;twelve years,&#8221; we said &#8220;<b>dh\u00e1 bhliain d\u00e9ag<\/b>,&#8221; with the basic form of &#8220;<b>d\u00e9ag<\/b>&#8221; ([djayg] not lenited).\u00a0 So what&#8217;s going on here?<\/p>\n<p>There is a pattern to when to use &#8220;<b>dh\u00e9ag<\/b>&#8221; and when to use &#8220;<b>d\u00e9ag<\/b>.&#8221;\u00a0 First, though, let&#8217;s look at the basic word order for these phrases, since we&#8217;ll need that for the explanation.\u00a0 \u00a0In Irish, if you&#8217;re counting twelve things or animals, what you&#8217;re counting comes in between the words for &#8220;two&#8221; (<b>dh\u00e1<\/b>) and for &#8220;ten&#8221; (<b>d\u00e9ag \/ dh\u00e9ag<\/b>).\u00a0\u00a0 It&#8217;s almost as if you&#8217;re saying &#8220;two animal ten&#8221; or &#8220;two year ten&#8221; to say &#8220;twelve animals&#8221; or &#8220;twelve years.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>Now for &#8220;<b>d\u00e9ag<\/b>&#8221; vs. &#8220;<b>dh\u00e9ag<\/b>.&#8221;\u00a0 Whether to use &#8220;<b>d\u00e9ag<\/b>&#8221; or &#8220;<b>dh\u00e9ag<\/b>&#8221; depends on how the thing you&#8217;re counting is spelled.\u00a0 If the word ends in a vowel, &#8220;<b>dh\u00e9ag<\/b>&#8221; is used.\u00a0 A few examples include:<\/p>\n<p><b>dh\u00e1 ainmh\u00ed dh\u00e9ag<\/b>, twelve animals (remember: &#8220;<strong>dh\u00e9ag<\/strong>&#8221; sounds like &#8220;yayg&#8221;)<\/p>\n<p><b>dh\u00e1 or\u00e1iste dh\u00e9ag<\/b>, twelve oranges<\/p>\n<p>If the thing you&#8217;re counting ends in a consonant, we use &#8220;<b>d\u00e9ag<\/b>,&#8221; as in:<\/p>\n<p><b>dh\u00e1 bhliain d\u00e9ag<\/b>, twelve years<\/p>\n<p><b>dh\u00e1 \u00fall d\u00e9ag<\/b>, twelve apples<\/p>\n<p>So what do apostles, mill-clappers, and zodiac signs have to so with all of this?\u00a0 <b>Bhuel<\/b>, directly or indirectly, they have to do with the number twelve.\u00a0 So let&#8217;s continue practicing the number &#8220;twelve,&#8221; and for good measure, we&#8217;ll look at &#8220;dozen&#8221; as well.<\/p>\n<p>First, how do we say &#8220;twelve signs,&#8221; as in &#8220;<b>Comhartha\u00ed an Stoidiaca<\/b>&#8220;?\u00a0 It&#8217;s a good way to practice &#8220;<b>dh\u00e1 &#8230; dh\u00e9ag<\/b>&#8221; since there are 12 signs, <b>ceann do gach m\u00ed.\u00a0 D\u00e1la an sc\u00e9il, &#8220;comhartha\u00ed&#8221;<\/b> sounds like &#8220;KOR-hee&#8221; or &#8220;KOH-ur-hee&#8221;:<\/p>\n<p><b>dh\u00e1 chomhartha dh\u00e9ag<\/b>, twelve signs [for &#8220;<strong>chomhartha<\/strong>,&#8221; say &#8220;KHOR-huh&#8221;\u00a0 or &#8220;KHOH-ur-huh,&#8221; with the &#8220;mh&#8221; nearly silent, the &#8220;t&#8221; silent, and in the initial &#8220;kh&#8221; sound like the &#8220;ch&#8221; of &#8220;challah,&#8221; &#8220;Chanukah,&#8221; or German <em>Buch<\/em>]<\/p>\n<p>So we have three points to keep in mind: a) &#8220;<b>chomhartha<\/b>&#8221; lenited after &#8220;<b>dh\u00e1<\/b>,&#8221; b) &#8220;<b>dh\u00e9ag<\/b>&#8221; lenited after &#8220;<b>chomhartha<\/b>,&#8221; and c) &#8220;<b>c(h)omhartha<\/b>&#8221; is singular in this phrase, not plural, which would be &#8220;<b>comhartha\u00ed<\/b>&#8221; [KOH-ur-hee].<\/p>\n<p>Next, counting people, and apostles happens to be a convenient example.\u00a0 In Irish, saying the number of apostles uses a different system from counting animals or years, etc., one specifically for counting people (<b>na huimhreacha pearsanta<\/b>).\u00a0 You might recognize this concept from phrases like &#8220;<b>beirt bhan<\/b>,&#8221; &#8220;<b>tri\u00far buachaill\u00ed<\/b>,&#8221; and &#8220;<b>Ceathrar Marcach an Apacailipsis<\/b>.&#8221; \u00a0\u00a0This is a bit like using &#8220;duo,&#8221; &#8220;trio,&#8221; and &#8220;quartet&#8221; in English, but in English, these terms are mostly limited to musicians or deliberately artsy phrases (Dynamic Duo, etc.).\u00a0 In Irish, words like &#8220;<b>beirt<\/b>,&#8221; &#8220;<b>tri\u00far<\/b>,&#8221; and &#8220;<b>ceathrar<\/b>,&#8221; up through &#8220;<b>deichni\u00far<\/b>&#8221; and &#8220;<b>dh\u00e1r\u00e9ag<\/b>&#8221; are routinely used for counting people.<\/p>\n<p>So how do we say twelve people?\u00a0 There are two choices:<\/p>\n<p><b>dh\u00e1r\u00e9ag<\/b> (twelve people), this is as far as the &#8220;<b>uimhreacha pearsanta<\/b>&#8221; system goes.\u00a0 Starting with thirteen, we use the regular cardinal numbers (<b>tr\u00ed dhuine dh\u00e9ag<\/b>, etc.)<\/p>\n<p><b>dh\u00e1r\u00e9ag fear<\/b>, twelve men, and note that &#8220;dh&#8221; changes to &#8220;d&#8221; after &#8220;<strong>an<\/strong>&#8221; here: <b>an d\u00e1r\u00e9ag fear<\/b>, the twelve men<\/p>\n<p><b>dh\u00e1r\u00e9ag aspal<\/b>, twelve apostles, and &#8220;<b>an D\u00e1r\u00e9ag Aspal<\/b>,&#8221; the Twelve Apostles, sometimes just referred to as &#8220;<b>An D\u00e1r\u00e9ag<\/b>.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>So far we have the cardinal numbers (<b>dh\u00e1 ainmh\u00ed dh\u00e9ag<\/b>) and the personal numbers (<b>an D\u00e1r\u00e9ag Aspal<\/b>).\u00a0 How about &#8220;dozen.&#8221;\u00a0 And what was that about mill-clappers?\u00a0\u00a0 <b>Bhuel<\/b>, just a bit of fun, actually. \u00a0The Irish word for &#8220;dozen&#8221; is &#8220;<b>dosaen<\/b>,&#8221; not surprisingly.\u00a0 But if we want to describe someone as talking &#8220;nineteen to the dozen&#8221; in Irish we don&#8217;t actually refer to numbers at all in the closest equivalent.\u00a0 Instead, the phrase is &#8220;to be (like) a mill-clapper&#8221; (<b>claib\u00edn muilinn<\/b>).\u00a0 So we could say:<\/p>\n<p><b>T\u00e1 Stella Mudd (bean Harry Mudd) ina claib\u00edn muilinn (R\u00e9altAistear, S\u00e9as\u00far 2, Eipeas\u00f3id 8,<\/b> &#8220;I, Mudd,&#8221; 1967<b>).\u00a0 N\u00ed deir s\u00ed ach ruda\u00ed mar<\/b> &#8220;Harcourt Fenton Mudd, what have you been up to? Have you been drinking again? You answer me!&#8221; <b>agus<\/b> &#8220;Harcourt Fenton Mudd, what have you been up to? Nothing good, I&#8217;m sure. Well, let me tell you, you lazy, good-for-nothing\u00a0.&#8221;\u00a0 <b>Ar\u00eds agus ar\u00edst eile, go tapaidh agus gan stad.<\/b><\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_4890\" style=\"width: 235px\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft post-item__attachment\"><a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/17\/2014\/01\/Dozen_Happy_Eggs.jpg\" aria-label=\"Dozen Happy Eggs\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-4890\" class=\"size-full wp-image-4890\"  alt=\"C\u00e9 mh\u00e9ad ubh shona at\u00e1 sa phicti\u00far seo? Dosaen!\" width=\"225\" height=\"150\" \/ src=\"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/17\/2014\/01\/Dozen_Happy_Eggs.jpg\"><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-4890\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">C\u00e9 mh\u00e9ad ubh shona at\u00e1 sa phicti\u00far seo? Dosaen!<\/p><\/div>\n<p>So the Irish equivalent to &#8220;nineteen to the dozen&#8221; doesn&#8217;t involve numbers but it did give us an interesting way to introduce the word &#8220;<b>dosaen<\/b>&#8221; into our discussion of the number &#8220;twelve.&#8221;\u00a0\u00a0 Some other phrases with &#8220;<b>dosaen<\/b>&#8221; include &#8220;<b>dosaen uibheacha<\/b>&#8221; and &#8220;<b>dosaen r\u00f3sanna<\/b>.&#8221; Those two examples demonstrate that &#8220;<strong>d<\/strong><b>osaen<\/b>&#8221; is followed by the genitive plural, unlike the cardinal numbers, which are followed by the nominative singular form of the noun (&#8220;<strong>dosaen<\/strong> <b><b>r\u00f3sanna&#8221;<\/b><\/b>\u00a0 but &#8220;<strong>dh\u00e1<\/strong> <b><b>r\u00f3s d\u00e9ag&#8221;)<\/b><\/b>.\u00a0 A &#8220;<b>dosaen fada<\/b>&#8221; is a &#8220;baker&#8217;s dozen&#8221; i.e. thirteen of something.\u00a0 Again, the Irish isn&#8217;t literally the same as the English, since &#8220;<b>dosaen fada<\/b>&#8221; actually means &#8220;a long dozen.&#8221;<\/p>\n<div id=\"attachment_4891\" style=\"width: 160px\" class=\"wp-caption alignleft post-item__attachment\"><a href=\"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/17\/2014\/01\/clip-art-roses-617135.jpg\" aria-label=\"Clip Art Roses 617135 150x150\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-4891\" class=\"size-thumbnail wp-image-4891\"  alt=\"C\u00e9 mh\u00e9ad r\u00f3s at\u00e1 ag an bhfear? T\u00e1 dosaen r\u00f3sanna aige. \" width=\"150\" height=\"150\" \/ src=\"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/17\/2014\/01\/clip-art-roses-617135-150x150.jpg\"><\/a><p id=\"caption-attachment-4891\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">C\u00e9 mh\u00e9ad r\u00f3s at\u00e1 ag an bhfear? T\u00e1 dosaen r\u00f3sanna aige.<\/p><\/div>\n<p>To recap, there are various ways to say &#8220;twelve&#8221; in Irish and various ways numbers affect the following word:<\/p>\n<p><b>dh\u00e1 bhliain d\u00e9ag, dh\u00e1 ainmh\u00ed dh\u00e9ag<\/b><\/p>\n<p><b>dh\u00e1r\u00e9ag fear, dh\u00e1r\u00e9ag ban, An D\u00e1r\u00e9ag Aspal<\/b> (the pattern &#8220;<b>dh\u00e1 dhuine dh\u00e9ag<\/b>&#8221; can also be used)<\/p>\n<p><b>dosaen, dosaen uibheacha, <b>dosaen r\u00f3sanna,\u00a0<\/b>dosaen fada<\/b><\/p>\n<p>And if you&#8217;re still hankering for more expressions with twelve, there&#8217;s always &#8220;<b>dh\u00e1 dhosaen d\u00e9ag<\/b>&#8221; (lit. twelve dozens, or &#8220;a gross,&#8221; typically for counting items like &#8220;<b>pinn luaidhe<\/b>,&#8221; &#8220;<b>canna\u00ed bia<\/b>,&#8221; and &#8220;<b>liathr\u00f3id\u00ed lead\u00f3g bhoird<\/b>&#8220;; 144 units of something).\u00a0\u00a0 Or we could simply call that a &#8220;<b>gr\u00f3sa<\/b>.&#8221;\u00a0 There are lots more terms for measuring, weighing, and counting things, both contemporary (<b>puint, cileagraim<\/b>) and archaic (like <b>bannl\u00e1mha, l\u00e9igeanna, eileanna<\/b>, and <b>feirc\u00edn\u00ed<\/b>) but the rest will have to wait for <b>am \u00e9igin eile<\/b>.\u00a0 <b>SGF &#8212; R\u00f3isl\u00edn<\/b><\/p>\n<p><strong>nasc:<\/strong>\u00a0https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/dha-ainmhi-dheag-dha-bhliain-deag-agus-cen-fhoirm-den-alt\/<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<img width=\"200\" height=\"183\" src=\"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/17\/2014\/01\/clip-art-roses-617135-e1391798908420.jpg\" class=\"attachment-post-thumbnail size-post-thumbnail wp-post-image tmp-hide-img\" alt=\"\" decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" \/><p>(le R\u00f3isl\u00edn) You may have noticed that both &#8220;dh\u00e9ag&#8221; and &#8220;d\u00e9ag&#8221; were used in the last blog title (nasc th\u00edos).\u00a0 For &#8220;twelve animals,&#8221; we said &#8220;dh\u00e1 ainmh\u00ed dh\u00e9ag&#8221; with the lenited form &#8220;dh\u00e9ag&#8221; [yayg].\u00a0 For &#8220;twelve years,&#8221; we said &#8220;dh\u00e1 bhliain d\u00e9ag,&#8221; with the basic form of &#8220;d\u00e9ag&#8221; ([djayg] not lenited).\u00a0 So what&#8217;s going on&hellip;<\/p>\n<p class=\"post-item__readmore\"><a class=\"btn btn--md\" href=\"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/apostles-mill-clappers-and-zodiac-signs-and-the-common-thread-is-the-number-12\/\">Continue Reading<\/a><\/p>","protected":false},"author":36,"featured_media":4891,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"content-type":""},"categories":[3898],"tags":[307140,307141,307152,307148,307145,307127,4921,96585,255485,307125,307126,307131,307132,307124,8082,307109,307108,307150,307151,307142,307107,307153,307128,8944,307144,6940,307149,307146,307147,255456,7223,7227,13438],"class_list":["post-4887","post","type-post","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-irish-language","tag-apostle","tag-aspal","tag-chlaibin-muilinn","tag-claibin-muilinn","tag-comhartha","tag-dareag","tag-deag","tag-dha","tag-dhareag","tag-dheag","tag-dosaen","tag-dosaen-rosanna","tag-dosaen-uibheacha","tag-dozen","tag-egg","tag-fenton","tag-harcourt","tag-harry-mudd","tag-i-mudd","tag-mill-clapper","tag-mudd","tag-nineteen-to-the-dozen","tag-ros","tag-rose","tag-sign","tag-star-trek","tag-stella-mudd","tag-stoidiaca","tag-stoidiacach","tag-twelve","tag-ubh","tag-uibheacha","tag-zodiac"],"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4887","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/36"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4887"}],"version-history":[{"count":10,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4887\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":8436,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4887\/revisions\/8436"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/4891"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4887"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4887"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4887"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}