{"id":544,"date":"2010-12-04T14:08:03","date_gmt":"2010-12-04T14:08:03","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/?p=544"},"modified":"2010-12-06T14:14:59","modified_gmt":"2010-12-06T14:14:59","slug":"ag-caint-faoin-euro-speaking-of-the-euro-pt-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/ag-caint-faoin-euro-speaking-of-the-euro-pt-2\/","title":{"rendered":"Ag Caint faoin Euro (Speaking of the Euro) (pt. 2)"},"content":{"rendered":"

We recently went through the ways to count words like \u201ceuro<\/strong>,\u201d \u201c\u00fall<\/strong>,\u201d and \u201cuair.<\/strong>\u201d \u00a0I included the last two since they illustrate additional features of Irish that don\u2019t show up with the word \u201ceuro<\/strong>,\u201d like lenition (s\u00e9imhi\u00fa<\/strong>), eclipsis (ur\u00fa<\/strong>), and h-prefixation.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Another currency that might often be discussed (and counted) in Irish is the \u201cpunt<\/strong>.\u201d\u00a0 This could apply today to \u201can punt steirling<\/strong>,\u201d or prior to the adoption of the euro in Ireland, to the \u201cpunt<\/strong>\u201d as Ireland\u2019s unit of currency.\u00a0 The Irish punt (punt \u00c9ireannach<\/strong>) was decimalized in 1969\/1971 and that system lasted until as long as the punt<\/strong> system did (1999\/2002).\u00a0 Prior to deach\u00fal\u00fa<\/strong>, the Irish punt was divided into 240 pence and used terms like \u201cscilling<\/strong>\u201d and \u201ccor\u00f3in<\/strong>\u201d for the larger coins. \u00a0If we pursue all that, it will definitely be in a later blog, although it is a fascinating topic!\u00a0<\/p>\n

In the \u201cc\u00f3ras deach\u00falach<\/strong>,\u201d the Irish punt<\/strong> was divided into 100 pence (pingin<\/strong>).\u00a0 The word \u201cpingin<\/strong>\u201d was considered one of the special unit-of-measurement nouns, at least by many speakers, and so it was counted slightly differently from \u201cpunt<\/strong>\u201d itself, in terms of initial changes.<\/p>\n

Conveniently, for showing contrast, both words start with the letter \u201cp,\u201d which can take both s\u00e9imhi\u00fa<\/strong> and ur\u00fa<\/strong>.\u00a0 Let\u2019s count, starting with \u201cpunt<\/strong>,\u201d because it follows the standard rules, just like counting boxes or tables.\u00a0 Note that there is no lenition with \u201cone,\u201d because that number comes after the noun.\u00a0 Then there\u2019s lenition for 2 through 6.<\/p>\n

punt amh\u00e1in, dh\u00e1 phunt, tr\u00ed phunt, ceithre phunt, c\u00faig phunt, s\u00e9 phunt <\/strong><\/p>\n

(the \u201cph\u201d is pronounced like \u201cf\u201d)<\/p>\n

And now for pence, according to the \u201cunits-of-measurement\u201d rule:<\/p>\n

pingin amh\u00e1in<\/strong> (no change)<\/p>\n

dh\u00e1 phingin<\/strong> (lenition)<\/p>\n

tr\u00ed pingine, ceithre pingine, c\u00faig pingine, s\u00e9 pingine<\/strong> (no lenition but added ending \u2013e)<\/p>\n

And now 7 through 10 for both \u201cpunt<\/strong>\u201d and \u201cpingin<\/strong>\u201d:<\/p>\n

seacht bpunt, ocht bpunt, naoi bpunt, deich bpunt<\/strong> (eclipsis, no change to ending)<\/p>\n

seacht bpingine, ocht bpingine, naoi bpingine, deich bpingine<\/strong> (eclipsis plus change to ending)<\/p>\n

Remember that \u201cpingin<\/strong>\u201d can be pronounced either with the \u201csoft ng\u201d sound, like \u201csinging\u201d (but not \u201cfinger\u201d) OR the \u201c\u2013ng-\u201c sound can drop out, leaving you with a long vowel sound, \u201cee,\u201d in the middle of the word.\u00a0 So the basic word could be \u201cPING-in\u201d or \u201cpeen.\u201d \u00a0Also \u201cpingine<\/strong>\u201d was sometimes spelled \u201cpingne<\/strong>,\u201d just to add to the mix.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Not everybody uses this special units-of-measurement rule, and especially in the North, I\u2019ve heard \u201cpingin<\/strong>\u201d treated as a regular noun, like \u201cpunt,\u201d or \u201cbosca<\/strong>.\u201d\u00a0 Of course, it\u2019s been a while since I\u2019ve actually heard anyone\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 talking about \u201cpingneacha<\/strong>\u201d at all, since the euro came in.\u00a0<\/p>\n

One other note about the \u201cunits-of-measurement\u201d rule \u2013 not all possible units of measurement are included.\u00a0 The word for \u201cweek\u201d is (so seachtain, tr\u00ed seachtain\u00ed<\/strong>, no lenition) but the word for \u201cmonth\u201d is not (m\u00ed, tr\u00ed mh\u00ed<\/strong>, with lenition).\u00a0 More on that later, m\u00e1 t\u00e1 suim agaibh ann<\/strong>.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Agus an dea-sc\u00e9al? <\/strong>And surely you deserve one after all this! \u00a0<\/strong>Once you have multiples of ten (i.e. 20 and above, but not 10 itself), there is no lenition, no eclipsis, no prefixing, and no special endings!\u00a0 So we could have:<\/p>\n

fiche punt, tr\u00edocha pingin, daichead \u00fall, caoga uair, seasca euro<\/strong> (no change for euro<\/strong> anyway, of course, but it\u2019s in the list just for good measure), srl.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Of course, it would be nice, if we were counting our own euro(s) or pounds, to be counting in much larger numbers, like m\u00edle<\/strong> or milli\u00fan<\/strong> or even, thinking even more wishfully, billi\u00fan<\/strong> (hmm, gilli\u00fan?)<\/strong>, trilli\u00fan<\/strong> or cuaidrilli\u00fan.\u00a0 <\/strong>But all in good time.\u00a0 Can\u2019t say I know of any Irish words that equate to the uimhreacha br\u00e9ige<\/strong> that exist in English, for really large indefinite amounts, but it wouldn\u2019t be hard to create them (*geasuilli\u00fan, *scuailli\u00fan, *feantuilli\u00fan, mar shampla<\/strong>), or, my favorite would be \u201c*ump d\u00e9ag<\/strong>,\u201d but if it\u2019s real money we\u2019re talking about, I\u2019d prefer to have more than \u201c*ump euro d\u00e9ag<\/strong>.\u201d\u00a0 Guess why I chose \u201ceuro\u201d there?\u00a0 No lenition, no eclipsis, and no precedent for which mutations \u201c*ump<\/strong>\u201d might cause, if it really were an Irish word.\u00a0<\/p>\n

N\u00f3ta: <\/strong>I\u2019ve put two dates (with a slash) for the transitions to decimalization and to the euro because there are differences between the agreement to change and the implementation.\u00a0 The general range of time is good enough for our purposes since we\u2019re primarily concerned with whether to lenite or eclipse here, not the details of the history of coinage.\u00a0 But I want to give people a rough idea of what time periods are involved, since many readers may have never seen pre-decimal currency in Ireland or in Britain or, if they\u2019re relative newcomers to Irish, may not have seen the pence-pounds system since the euro is used in today\u2019s Irish language textbooks.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Fuaimni\u00fa: <\/strong>punt:\u00a0 <\/strong>This is not pronounced like \u201cpunt\u201d in American football or in boating, but more like the English \u201cput.\u201d These are all short \u201cu\u201d sounds but if you contrast \u201cput\u201d with the golfing term \u201cputt,\u201d which is like the football\/boating punt, you should hear the difference.\u00a0 \u201cPunt<\/strong>\u201d is actually also used for the currency of the following countries: An \u00c9igipt, An Liob\u00e1in, an tSiria, an tS\u00fad\u00e1in<\/strong>.\u00a0 But I can\u2019t say I\u2019ve ever actually had occasion to use the phrases punt na h\u00c9igipte, punt na Liob\u00e1ine, punt na Siria, and punt na S\u00fad\u00e1ine<\/strong> in real life.\u00a0 Tusa?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Gluais: br\u00e9ag, <\/strong>lie, falsehood; br\u00e9ige<\/strong>, fake, fictitious, lit. of a falsehood; dea-sc\u00e9al<\/strong>, piece of good news; *ump d\u00e9ag<\/strong>, looks like I\u2019ll have to accept the responsibility for this coinage for \u201cumpteen\u201d since I don\u2019t see any other examples of it online and don\u2019t recall ever hearing it. \u00a0If you actually use \u201cump d\u00e9ag<\/strong>\u201d to count something (indefinitely), remember that since the number is in the teens, the item counted comes between the \u201cump<\/strong>\u201d and the \u201cd\u00e9ag<\/strong>\u201d (ump rud d\u00e9ag, <\/strong>umpteen things), just like it would for a real number in the teens, like \u201caon rud d\u00e9ag<\/strong>\u201d (11 things).<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

We recently went through the ways to count words like \u201ceuro,\u201d \u201c\u00fall,\u201d and \u201cuair.\u201d \u00a0I included the last two since they illustrate additional features of Irish that don\u2019t show up with the word \u201ceuro,\u201d like lenition (s\u00e9imhi\u00fa), eclipsis (ur\u00fa), and h-prefixation.\u00a0 Another currency that might often be discussed (and counted) in Irish is the \u201cpunt.\u201d\u00a0…<\/p>\n

Continue Reading<\/a><\/p>","protected":false},"author":36,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"content-type":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[12924,12923,12927,12917,12916,251,12928,12914,12925,6102,6103,12919,12922,12918,12920,12921,12912,12929,12913,12926,12915],"class_list":["post-544","post","type-post","status-publish","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-billiun","tag-bpunt","tag-cuaidrilliun","tag-deachulach","tag-deachulu","tag-euro","tag-fantillion","tag-gazillion","tag-gilliun","tag-mile","tag-milliun","tag-phingin","tag-phunt","tag-pingin","tag-pingine","tag-pingne","tag-punt","tag-squillion","tag-steirling","tag-trilliun","tag-umpteen"],"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/544","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/36"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=544"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/544\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":548,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/544\/revisions\/548"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=544"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=544"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=544"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}