{"id":5523,"date":"2014-07-22T20:21:12","date_gmt":"2014-07-22T20:21:12","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/?p=5523"},"modified":"2015-05-26T17:55:57","modified_gmt":"2015-05-26T17:55:57","slug":"ce-mhead-shades-of-gray-grey-liath-leith-de-grae-srl","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/ce-mhead-shades-of-gray-grey-liath-leith-de-grae-srl\/","title":{"rendered":"C\u00e9 mh\u00e9ad “Shades of Gray” (Grey … Liath … L\u00e9ith … de Grae, srl.)?"},"content":{"rendered":"

(le R\u00f3isl\u00edn)<\/strong><\/p>\n

I was recently reminded of a rather infamous episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation<\/em>, entitled “Shades of Gray.”\u00a0 B’fh\u00e9idir gur cuimhin leat \u00e9<\/strong>.<\/p>\n

That got me thinking of other uses of the phrase, “Shades of Gray (Grey),” even aside from the current tie-in by E. L. James.\u00a0 I’ve been pondering how to translate the book and movie title, Fifty Shades of Grey<\/em>, and have ended up in a bit of an impasse, at least as far as the “imeartas focal<\/strong>” goes.<\/p>\n

Of course, word play is always hard to translate, since different pairs of words sound alike in different languages.\u00a0 For example, so far, I don’t know of any language other than English in which the old chestnut of a riddle, “What’s black and white and red all over?” actually works as a pun.\u00a0 The answer is a “newspaper” (black and white and “read” all over, at least pre-Internet).\u00a0 But there’s no pun if you try to translate the riddle into Irish (dubh, b\u00e1n, dearg<\/strong> vs. l\u00e9ite<\/strong> or some other form of the verb “l\u00e9igh<\/strong>“). It’s the same with combinations in a few other languages I can think of, like Welsh (du, gwyn, coch<\/em>), French (noir, blanc, rouge<\/em>), and Klingon (qIj, chIS, Doq<\/em>).<\/p>\n

So where does that leave us with “Shades of Gray” (or “Grey”) in Irish?\u00a0 And what’s the word play in the title anyway?\u00a0 Isn’t “shades of gray” just a stock expression, a “sean<\/strong>–nath cainte<\/strong>“?\u00a0 Well, yes, but in E. L. James’s novels, “Grey” is also the “sloinne<\/strong>” of one of the characters, Christian Trevelyan Grey, with both the Trevelyan and the Grey elements coming from his adoptive parents (Dr. Grace Trevelyan Grey and her husband, Carrick Grey).\u00a0 Hmm, how many Celtic connections do we have here anyway?\u00a0 Trevelyan … sloinne Cornaise agus<\/strong> “Carrick” \u00f3n nGaeilge “carraig.”<\/strong>\u00a0 But those topics deserve their own blogs (a mblaganna f\u00e9in<\/strong>) and would take too much space to discuss further here.<\/p>\n

So, back to gray\/grey.<\/p>\n

Let’s look first at how to say “shades” of, regarding a color.\u00a0 “Doimhneacht<\/strong>” [DIV-nyukht] is probably the best choice here for “shade,” although there is at least one other possibility (“imir<\/strong>” as a noun meaning “shade” or “tint”). Here are the basics for “doimhneacht<\/strong>“:<\/p>\n

doimhneacht<\/strong>, depth (in the abstract, of sound, of color, of thought, etc.). depth (in measurement), a deep place, especially in water; can be translated as “shade” regarding color, but doesn’t mean “shade” in the sense of a shadow or underworld spirit<\/p>\n

doimhneachta<\/strong>, of depth, of a deep place, of a shade (of a color)<\/p>\n

The plural isn’t always given in dictionary entries for this word, because it is so abstract, but it does exist:<\/p>\n

doimhneachta\u00ed<\/strong>: depths , shades (of a color)<\/p>\n

And now for the gray\/grey part.\u00a0 The basic word for “gray” in Irish is “liath<\/strong>” [LEE-uh; the “th” is silent].\u00a0 Here are some of its forms:<\/p>\n

as an adjective:\u00a0liath<\/strong>, singular, and liatha<\/strong> [LEE-uh-huh], plural, as in: f\u00e9as\u00f3g liath<\/strong>, a gray beard; f\u00e9as\u00f3ga liatha<\/strong>, gray beards<\/p>\n

as a noun: liath<\/strong>, gray (grey), gray color (grey colour)<\/p>\n

l\u00e9ith<\/strong> [lyay], of gray (of grey)<\/p>\n

and , though we won’t need them here, the plural forms: liatha<\/strong>, grays (greys) and liath<\/strong>, of grays (of greys)<\/p>\n

So now, we’re ready to say “Fifty Shades of Grey,” right?<\/p>\n

Bhuel, b’fh\u00e9idir go bhfuil agus b’fh\u00e9idir go<\/strong> “won’t” (speaking of old chestnuts of jokes).<\/p>\n

“Shades of gray” for a color would be “doimnhneachta\u00ed l\u00e9ith<\/strong>.”\u00a0 (UK\/Irish English: “Shades of grey” for a colour …).\u00a0 The structure is “doimhneachta\u00ed<\/strong>” followed by the noun in the genitive case, like “l\u00e9ith<\/strong>” for “liath.<\/strong>” Some examples for other colors include “deirg<\/strong>” for “dearg<\/strong>” and “goirm”<\/strong> for “gorm<\/strong>” (with “deirge<\/strong>” and “goirme<\/strong>” as the genitive of the the adjectives when modifying feminine singular nouns, as in “costas na l\u00e9ine deirge<\/strong>” and “uigeacht na l\u00e9ine goirme<\/strong>“).<\/p>\n

So “doimhneachta\u00ed l\u00e9ith<\/strong>” would suit for most purposes, like Star Trek: The Next Generation’s “Shades of Gray” or Jasper Fforde’s novel, Shades of Grey: The Road to High Saffron<\/em> (2009), if either of them were getting translated into Irish.<\/p>\n

There is also an option using “den<\/strong>” (of the) and no genitive case (Aillili\u00fa<\/strong>!).\u00a0 That would be “doimhneachta\u00ed den liath<\/strong>,” but the pattern “sa tuiseal ginideach<\/strong>” seems to be the more, errmm (squirm, really, given our context!), dominant.<\/p>\n

And if there were truly “fifty” shades of the color “liath<\/strong>” (and there probably are), we’d simply add “caoga<\/strong>” [KAY-guh).\u00a0 Pronunciation question if “caoga<\/strong>” is new for you?\u00a0 The “-ao-” isn’t<\/em> like “ay-oh” as in AOL (America OnLine).\u00a0 Nor is it like the romanized transcription of the Chinese “ao” as in “Bao Bao<\/em>” (the famous panda cub, whose first birthday is coming up soon); the Chinese “ao” is like the “ou” in English “ouch,” at least that’s my best approximation.\u00a0 “Caoga<\/strong>” is basically pronounced with the “ao” like the “ay” in “say” or “pay.”<\/p>\n

So there’s one more hurdle for “fifty shades of gray,”\u00a0 We need to make one more change, since we’ve added a number to our expression.\u00a0 “Doimhneachta\u00ed<\/strong>” goes back to being singular “doimhneacht<\/strong>.”\u00a0 Now it’s “caoga doimhneacht l\u00e9ith<\/strong>.”\u00a0 Why “singular” when the concept is “plural”?\u00a0 I think the best basic answer is “it is what it is” (.. seanchast\u00e1n eile<\/strong> … ). \u00a0Nouns after numbers stay singular in Irish, in almost all cases (bosca amh\u00e1in, dh\u00e1 bhosca, seacht mbosca, caoga bosca,<\/strong> etc., meaning 1 box, 2 boxes, 7 boxes, 50 boxes, with the ending of “bosca<\/strong>” staying singular the whole time).\u00a0 Exceptions, well, yes, some of the units of measurement (s\u00e9 seachtain\u00ed, srl.<\/strong>), but that’s beyond the scope of this blog.<\/p>\n

D\u00e9an an t-athr\u00fa sin agus seo an fr\u00e1sa<\/strong>:<\/p>\n

Caoga Doimhneacht L\u00e9ith<\/strong><\/p>\n

Ach … an cuimhin leat go raibh m\u00e9 ag caint faoin sloinne<\/strong> “Grey”? \u00a0The leading male character in the story is Christian Grey, so the title is really a pun on his name.\u00a0 And there’s the rub.\u00a0 The surname “Grey” in Irish is technically “De Grae<\/strong>,” simply borrowing the English sound and gaelicizing the spelling.\u00a0 Quite likely it’s from Norman French originally.\u00a0 Eolas faoi sin ag duine ar bith anseo?\u00a0 An bhfuil an sloinne sin ar dhuine ar bith agaibh?<\/strong><\/p>\n

And then there’s the surname “Gray,” with the “-ay” spelling, which can be either “Mac Cathail Riabhaigh<\/strong>” or “Mac Giolla Riabhaigh<\/strong>” in Irish! \u00a0Plus about 20 more variations in anglicized spellings, like MacGillreavy and MacArevy, to name just a few.<\/p>\n

“Liath<\/strong>” does show up as a surname element, in “\u00d3 Liath\u00e1in<\/strong>,” according to some interpretations, but that name seems to be mostly anglicized based on its sound, not its meaning (O’Lehane, Lyhane, Leehane, Lehane, Leyhane, Lihane, Lyhan, Leehan, Leeane, O’Lyons, Lyons, etc.).\u00a0 And some of those can actually derive from the similar-sounding “\u00d3 Laighin<\/strong>,” from “l\u00e1ighe<\/strong>” (spear).<\/p>\n

So that leaves us with:<\/p>\n

caoga<\/strong> (50, quite straightforward)<\/p>\n

doimhneacht<\/strong> (the word stays singular after the number “50”)<\/p>\n

and then various choices for the surname\/color (de Grae, Mac Cathail Riabhaigh, Mac Giolla Riabhaigh, \u00d3 Liath\u00e1in, srl.<\/strong>)<\/p>\n

Caoga Doimhneacht L\u00e9ith<\/strong><\/p>\n

Caoga Doimhneacht de Grae<\/strong><\/p>\n

Caoga Doimhneacht Mhic Ghiolla Riabhaigh <\/strong>(“mac<\/strong>” becomes “mhic<\/strong>” in the genitive)<\/p>\n

Caoga Doimhneacht Mhic Chathail Riabhaigh<\/strong><\/p>\n

Caoga Doimhneacht U\u00ed Liath\u00e1in<\/strong> (“\u00d3”<\/strong> becomes “U\u00ed<\/strong>” in the genitive)<\/p>\n

So, like I said i dt\u00fas an bhlag<\/strong>, I’m at a bit of an impasse.\u00a0 Bar\u00fail ar bith agaibhse?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Maybe if I read E. L. James’s books I’ll get a clearer idea of which way to go with this.\u00a0 I was really putting them off, because frankly, I find the trilogy’s theme pretty disconcerting.\u00a0 But since discovering that the adoptive mother’s maiden name is “Trevelyan” and the father is “Carrick,” I guess I’ll have to start reading.\u00a0 \u00a0Maybe that’s a slim reason, but, hey, it keeps me busy.\u00a0 Why do<\/em> Celtic names appear?<\/p>\n

On that note, sl\u00e1n go f\u00f3ill<\/strong>, and please write in if you have some ideas about how to translate Fifty Shades of Grey<\/em>. \u00a0 Just the title, not the whole book, at least so far.\u00a0 As far as I can tell there’s no Irish translation yet.\u00a0 I’ve checked E. L. James’s website, which appears to list all the foreign language versions.\u00a0 Is this possibly a breakthrough opportunity in Irish publishing, given the trilogy’s\u00a0global popularity?\u00a0 – R\u00f3isl\u00edn<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

(le R\u00f3isl\u00edn) I was recently reminded of a rather infamous episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation, entitled “Shades of Gray.”\u00a0 B’fh\u00e9idir gur cuimhin leat \u00e9. That got me thinking of other uses of the phrase, “Shades of Gray (Grey),” even aside from the current tie-in by E. L. James.\u00a0 I’ve been pondering how to…<\/p>\n

Continue Reading<\/a><\/p>","protected":false},"author":36,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"content-type":""},"categories":[3898],"tags":[4268,365152,359219,359234,359233,359226,359225,4620,359222,229504,4783,306497,359236,4923,332191,332165,359228,332189,332164,359227,359223,238500,4999,359215,332154,287,1083,5373,332166,359229,359237,332155,332156,229505,9780,332163,359216,111110,273337,359254,359250,359249,359244,359245,316262,359246,32951,32952,359247,359248,359243,359252,332171,332169,359240,359239,8233,6080,332172,332170,274839,359214,173242,359241,359253,332167,359242,359251,36300,11,8770,359221,33053,359238,359231,359220,359232,33092,332160,332162,6940,6980,365149,332180,359213,2588,359224,359230],"class_list":["post-5523","post","type-post","status-publish","hentry","category-irish-language","tag-ban","tag-bao-bao","tag-blanc","tag-bosca","tag-caoga","tag-carraig","tag-carrick","tag-celtic","tag-chis","tag-coch","tag-cornish","tag-costas","tag-de-grae","tag-dearg","tag-deep","tag-deirg","tag-deirge","tag-depth","tag-doimhneacht","tag-doimnhneachtai","tag-doq","tag-du","tag-dubh","tag-e-l-james","tag-fifty-shades-of-grey","tag-french","tag-genitive","tag-ginideach","tag-goirm","tag-goirme","tag-grae","tag-gray","tag-grey","tag-gwyn","tag-imeartas-focal","tag-imir","tag-james","tag-jasper-fforde","tag-klingon","tag-laighe","tag-leeane","tag-leehan","tag-leehane","tag-lehane","tag-leine","tag-leyhane","tag-liath","tag-liatha","tag-lihane","tag-lyhan","tag-lyhane","tag-lyons","tag-mac-cathail-riabhaigh","tag-mac-giolla-riabhaigh","tag-macarevy","tag-macgillreavy","tag-measurement","tag-mhic","tag-mhic-chathail-riabhaigh","tag-mhic-ghiolla-riabhaigh","tag-name","tag-next-generation","tag-noir","tag-norman","tag-o-laighin","tag-o-liathain","tag-olehane","tag-olyons","tag-panda","tag-pronunciation","tag-pun","tag-qij","tag-riabhach","tag-riabhaigh","tag-road-to-high-saffron","tag-rouge","tag-saffron","tag-shade","tag-shades-of-gray","tag-sloinne","tag-star-trek","tag-surname","tag-theres-the-rub","tag-tint","tag-tng","tag-translation","tag-trevelyan","tag-uigeacht"],"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5523","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/36"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=5523"}],"version-history":[{"count":19,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5523\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":6739,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5523\/revisions\/6739"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=5523"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=5523"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=5523"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}