{"id":5590,"date":"2014-08-06T19:46:11","date_gmt":"2014-08-06T19:46:11","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/?p=5590"},"modified":"2014-08-15T02:50:26","modified_gmt":"2014-08-15T02:50:26","slug":"being-loud-not-allowed-i-gcaife-sa-choirean-co-chiarrai","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/being-loud-not-allowed-i-gcaife-sa-choirean-co-chiarrai\/","title":{"rendered":"‘Being Loud’ Not Allowed? (i gcaife sa Choire\u00e1n, Co. Chiarra\u00ed)"},"content":{"rendered":"

(le R\u00f3isl\u00edn)<\/strong><\/p>\n

By now you might have seen the article about the caf\u00e9 sign in Waterville, Co. Kerry (An Coire\u00e1n, Co. Chiarra\u00ed<\/strong>), which appeared to ban bus and coach passengers and loud Americans.<\/p>\n

Why do I say “appeared”?\u00a0 The punctuation on the sign is such that it defeats its own purpose.\u00a0 The phrase “loud American’s” refers to something owned by a loud American.\u00a0 But what?\u00a0 If the sign was supposed to mean a whole slew of loud Americans, there shouldn’t have been an apostrophe.<\/p>\n

For anyone who hasn’t seen the sign, it says “No bus\/coach, or Loud American’s.\u00a0 Thank you.”\u00a0 It was posted by Maurice Campbell on Twitter, and then picked up by cnbc.com (http:\/\/www.cnbc.com\/id\/101852949)<\/p>\n

Anyway, interpreting the sign as written, with “Loud American’s” [sic] as a possessive singular phrase, not as a plural , we’ll see what Irish translations are possible for a loud American, a loud Irishman, a loud Englishman, a loud child, and, let’s see, to wrap up, we’ll do a loud guru.\u00a0 Even if that last one is a bit ocsam\u00f3r\u00f3nach<\/strong> (oxymoronic).\u00a0 Then we’ll try each phrase “sa tuiseal ginideach<\/strong>” (in the genitive case), to show how possession is shown.<\/p>\n

So our first step is actually to decide what word to use for “loud.”\u00a0 As usual, with translations, there are several choices, shown here with some sample phrases:<\/p>\n

ard<\/strong>, loud (ardsoil\u00e9ir<\/strong>, loud and clear; de ghuth ard<\/strong>, in a loud voice); also means: high, tall (fear ard<\/strong>, a tall man)<\/p>\n

scol<\/strong>– (as a prefix), loud (scolmh\u00edr<\/strong>, a loud passage of music; scolgh\u00e1ire<\/strong>, a loud laugh or guffaw); as a noun on its own, it also means a song, a shout, or a singing or crying voice (an scol, na scolta<\/strong>)<\/p>\n

bladhmannach<\/strong>, loud, loud-mouthed, also blazing, boastful, bombastic, or flamboyant; related to “bladhm<\/strong>” (a flame, a blaze) and “bladhmann<\/strong>” (a sending forth of steam from a fermented haystack)<\/p>\n

call\u00e1nach<\/strong>, loud, loud-mouthed, noisy (cruinni\u00fa call\u00e1nach<\/strong>, a noisy meeting; duine call\u00e1nach<\/strong>, a noisy person); also means “blustery” (gaoth chall\u00e1nach<\/strong>, a blustery wind)<\/p>\n

gl\u00f3rach<\/strong>, loud, loud-mouthed (fothram gl\u00f3rach<\/strong>, a loud noise; duine gl\u00f3rach<\/strong>, a loud person); based on the word “gl\u00f3r<\/strong>” (voice, sound, noise), “gl\u00f3rach<\/strong>” also means “clamorous” and “noisy”<\/p>\n

ardghl\u00f3rach<\/strong> [AWRD-GHLOR-ukh], loud, loud-mouthed, loud-voiced (a combination of “ard<\/strong>” + “gl\u00f3rach<\/strong>,” which has now become “ghl\u00f3rach<\/strong>“).\u00a0\u00a0 In the pronunciation guide, the spelling “gh” stands for IPA \u00a0\/ \u0263 \/, the voiced velar fricative, a throatier version of the “kh” sound found in German “Buch<\/em>” and Scottish “loch”.\u00a0 Usually I’ve been a stickler for using the IPA symbol \/ \u0263 \/, but I see it often gets read as a “y,” so I figured I’d try just writing “gh.”\u00a0 This sound is not in English.<\/p>\n

As you can see, the last four can also mean “loud-mouthed,” whereas the first two tend not to be used to indicate loudness of people.<\/p>\n

“Ardghl\u00f3rach<\/strong>” seems best suited to our purposes, so now let’s try combining the adjective with some terms for people:<\/p>\n

an Meirice\u00e1nach ardghl\u00f3rach<\/strong><\/p>\n

an t\u00c9ireannach ardghl\u00f3rach<\/strong><\/p>\n

an Sasanach ardghl\u00f3rach<\/strong><\/p>\n

an p\u00e1iste ardghl\u00f3rach<\/strong><\/p>\n

an g\u00far\u00fa ardghl\u00f3rach<\/strong><\/p>\n

Now the plurals:<\/p>\n

na\u00a0 Meirice\u00e1naigh\u00a0 ardghl\u00f3racha<\/strong><\/p>\n

And based on that pattern, can you complete the phrases for “the loud Irishmen” and “the loud Englishmen”?\u00a0 Hint: I’ve typed these with the correct number of blanks to be filled in.\u00a0 Freagra\u00ed th\u00edos, iad uimhrithe<\/strong>:<\/p>\n

1) __a\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 __\u00c9ireanna__ __\u00a0 __\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 ardghl\u00f3rach__<\/strong><\/p>\n

2) __a\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 Sasana__\u00a0 __\u00a0 __\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 ardghl\u00f3rach__<\/strong><\/p>\n

“P\u00e1iste<\/strong>” and “g\u00far\u00fa<\/strong>” are 4th-declension nouns, so the plural endings are different.\u00a0 The plural for “ardghl\u00f3rach<\/strong>” stays the same as shown above.<\/p>\n

3) __a\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 p\u00e1ist__\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 ardghl\u00f3rach__<\/strong><\/p>\n

4) __a\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 g\u00far\u00fa__\u00a0 __\u00a0 __\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 ardghl\u00f3rach__<\/strong><\/p>\n

And now for “an tuiseal ginideach<\/strong>,” singular and plural.\u00a0 One convenient feature of Irish is that is doesn’t<\/em> use apostrophes to show possession.\u00a0\u00a0 On the other hand, Irish does<\/em> have some special endings and initial mutations to use to show possession.\u00a0 \u00d3 theach an diabhail go teach an deamha\u00edn, is d\u00f3cha, maidir le castacht an strucht\u00fair at\u00e1 i gceist!<\/strong><\/p>\n

At any rate, there’s no need to worry about “na huascham\u00f3ga earr\u00e1ideacha<\/strong>,” or, to translate the linguistic term more literally, “uascham\u00f3ga na ngr\u00f3saeir\u00ed glasra\u00ed<\/strong>.” \u00a0There are lots of interesting discussions and examples of the “greengrocers’ apostrophe” online (c\u00fapla nasc th\u00edos<\/strong>), but like I said, it’s not an issue that pertains to Irish word endings for showing possession.\u00a0 Irish has plenty of other instances of using the “uascham\u00f3g<\/strong>,” as with “an<\/strong>” (Ros a’ Mh\u00edl<\/strong> for Ros an<\/em> Mh\u00edl<\/strong>) and verb phrases based on “an chopail<\/strong>” (‘S \u00e9 an docht\u00fair \u00e9<\/strong> for Is \u00e9 an docht\u00fair \u00e9<\/strong>).\u00a0 But it doesn’t use uascham\u00f3ga<\/strong> at the end of the word for the possessor.<\/p>\n

But back to the markers of the genitive case.\u00a0 I’ll use the word “guth<\/strong>” (voice; [GUH, silent “t”) to illustrate the concept of possession, so we’ll be saying\u00a0 “the voice of the loud-mouthed (person).”<\/p>\n

Note that the noun and the adjective have changed ending, and the words for American, Irishman, Englishman, child, and guru will all change at the beginning as well.\u00a0 Remember, I said “initial”<\/em> mutation.<\/p>\n

guth \u00a0an \u00a0Mheirice\u00e1naigh \u00a0ardghl\u00f3raigh<\/strong> [ … un VERzh-ik-yawn-ee\u00a0 AWRD-GHLOR-ee, the final “-igh” pronounced “ee” because it’s “slender”]<\/p>\n

guth \u00a0an \u00a0\u00c9ireannaigh \u00a0ardghl\u00f3raigh<\/strong> \u00a0[ … un AYRzh-un-ee … ]<\/p>\n

guth\u00a0 an \u00a0tSasanaigh \u00a0ardghl\u00f3raigh<\/strong> \u00a0[ … un TAHSS-un-ee …, the first “s” of “tSasanaigh<\/strong>” is now silent]<\/p>\n

guth\u00a0 an \u00a0ph\u00e1iste \u00a0ardghl\u00f3raigh<\/strong> \u00a0[… un FwAWSH-tchuh … ]<\/p>\n

guth an \u00a0gh\u00far\u00fa \u00a0ardghl\u00f3raigh<\/strong>\u00a0 [un GHOO-roo …]<\/p>\n

Now the plurals, starting with the pattern for the nationality names, and making “guth<\/strong>” (voice) plural also (guthanna<\/strong> [GUH-huh-nuh, silent “t”):<\/p>\n

guthanna \u00a0na\u00a0 Meirice\u00e1nach \u00a0ardghl\u00f3rach<\/strong><\/p>\n

And based on that pattern, can you complete the phrases for “the voices of the loud Irishmen” and “the voices of the loud Englishmen”? \u00a0Leid<\/strong>: once again, I’ve typed these with the correct number of blanks to be filled in.\u00a0 Note that the adjective (ardghl\u00f3rach<\/strong>) is back to its basic form.\u00a0 Freagra\u00ed th\u00edos<\/strong>:<\/p>\n

5) guthanna\u00a0 na\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 __\u00c9ireanna__ __\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 ardghl\u00f3rach<\/strong><\/p>\n

6) guthanna\u00a0 na\u00a0 Sasana__\u00a0 __ \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0ardghl\u00f3rach<\/strong><\/p>\n

Did you remember the eclipsis at the beginning of the nouns indicating the people?\u00a0\u00a0 That’s the main marker of genitive plural these days.\u00a0 \u00a0If “eclipsis” is new for you, there is a list of the changes with the answers below, but I think most learners will agree, it’ll take more than a footnote to thoroughly digest the process.\u00a0 But there’s no time like the present to start with your initial mutations!<\/p>\n

“P\u00e1iste<\/strong>” and “g\u00far\u00fa<\/strong>” are 4th-declension nouns, so, as previously, their genitive plural endings are different than the endings for “American,” “Irishman,” and “Englishman.” \u00a0And now also, hey presto, we make the adjective agree, so it takes its plural ending.<\/p>\n

7) guthanna\u00a0 na \u00a0\u00a0__p\u00e1ist__\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 ardghl\u00f3rach__<\/strong><\/p>\n

8) guthanna\u00a0 na \u00a0\u00a0__g\u00far\u00fa__\u00a0 __\u00a0 __\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 ardghl\u00f3rach__<\/strong><\/p>\n

So, that’s my response to the Peter’s Place caf\u00e9 sign.\u00a0 Make it a teachable moment.\u00a0 The sign delightfully conjures up the question of what is being possessed by the “loud American.”\u00a0 And how we show possession for Irish nouns.<\/p>\n

Actually all the grammar on the sign is strange.\u00a0 No “bus\/coach”!\u00a0 What’s a “bus\/coach”?\u00a0 Aren’t such phrases on signs usually plural?\u00a0 “No buses or coaches.”\u00a0 Or “No busses or coaches,” since “busses” is also a plural form of “bus” (although I favor “buses).\u00a0 Even “no buses\/coaches” would read better to me.\u00a0 Do bhar\u00failse?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Hmm, do we see signs that say “No dog” or “No trespasser” or “No pet”?\u00a0 Hmm, again, I’m even thinking back to a book I enjoyed as a child, No Children, No Pets<\/em>, by Marion Holland (http:\/\/www.goodreads.com\/book\/show\/1768858.No_Children_No_Pets).\u00a0\u00a0 The title is indelibly printed in my brain as plural.<\/p>\n

And then, if you look closely at the sign, there’s also an interesting mixture of “litreacha sa ch\u00e1s uachtair<\/strong>” (ceannlitreacha<\/strong>) and “litreacha sa ch\u00e1s \u00edochtair<\/strong>.”\u00a0 C\u00e9n f\u00e1th?<\/strong><\/p>\n

But I do like the cascade of “poncanna<\/strong>” surrounding the leading word “no.”\u00a0 C\u00faig phonc at\u00e1 ann.\u00a0 C\u00e9n f\u00e1th?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Nothing like a slight touch of calligraphy to enhance the message.<\/p>\n

And, wait, fan bomaite<\/strong>, aha, an n\u00f3m\u00e9ad “eureka”<\/strong>!\u00a0 I think I’ve got it.\u00a0 The five dots (“dot” is “ponc<\/strong>” in Irish) are actually a cryptic reference to “Ponc\u00e1naigh<\/strong>” (Yanks).\u00a0 The “gn\u00e1thphonc<\/strong>” at the end of the line isn’t enough to draw attention to this subtext.\u00a0 So we have the five as decoration.\u00a0 “Five Yanks.”\u00a0 The mystery must unfold further somehow.<\/p>\n

Or maybe I’ve watched too much X-Chomhaid<\/strong> in my lifetime.<\/p>\n

On that bemused note, sl\u00e1n go f\u00f3ill — R\u00f3isl\u00edn<\/strong><\/p>\n

Naisc:<\/strong><\/p>\n

http:\/\/www.wordspy.com\/words\/greengrocersapostrophe.asp<\/p>\n

http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Greengrocer%27s_apostrophe#Superfluous_apostrophes_.28.22greengrocers.27_apostrophes.22.29<\/p>\n

Freagra\u00ed<\/strong><\/p>\n

A. Iolra \/ Ainmneach<\/p>\n

1) na \u00a0h\u00c9ireannaigh \u00a0ardghl\u00f3racha<\/p>\n

2) na \u00a0Sasanaigh \u00a0ardghl\u00f3racha<\/p>\n

3) na\u00a0 p\u00e1ist\u00ed \u00a0ardghl\u00f3racha<\/p>\n

4) na \u00a0g\u00far\u00fanna\u00a0 ardghl\u00f3racha<\/p>\n

B. Iolra, Ginideach<\/p>\n

5) guthanna\u00a0 na \u00a0n\u00c9ireannach \u00a0ardghl\u00f3rach<\/p>\n

6) guthanna\u00a0 na\u00a0 Sasanach \u00a0ardghl\u00f3rach<\/p>\n

7) guthanna\u00a0 na \u00a0bp\u00e1ist\u00ed \u00a0ardghl\u00f3racha<\/p>\n

8) guthanna\u00a0 na \u00a0ng\u00far\u00fanna\u00a0 ardghl\u00f3racha<\/p>\n

Eclipsis spelling changes: b\/mb, c\/gc, d\/nd, f\/bhf, g\/ng, p\/bp, t\/dt<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

(le R\u00f3isl\u00edn) By now you might have seen the article about the caf\u00e9 sign in Waterville, Co. Kerry (An Coire\u00e1n, Co. Chiarra\u00ed), which appeared to ban bus and coach passengers and loud Americans. Why do I say “appeared”?\u00a0 The punctuation on the sign is such that it defeats its own purpose.\u00a0 The phrase “loud American’s”…<\/p>\n

Continue Reading<\/a><\/p>","protected":false},"author":36,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"content-type":""},"categories":[3898],"tags":[1894,332255,4187,5665,5790,332254,332253,332256],"class_list":["post-5590","post","type-post","status-publish","hentry","category-irish-language","tag-american","tag-americans","tag-apostrophe","tag-ireland","tag-kerry","tag-loud-americans","tag-no-buscoach","tag-waterville"],"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5590","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/36"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=5590"}],"version-history":[{"count":10,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5590\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":5600,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/5590\/revisions\/5600"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=5590"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=5590"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=5590"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}