{"id":603,"date":"2011-01-10T21:14:37","date_gmt":"2011-01-10T21:14:37","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/?p=603"},"modified":"2014-01-06T19:36:13","modified_gmt":"2014-01-06T19:36:13","slug":"na-huimhreacha-pearsanta-ar-leanuint","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/na-huimhreacha-pearsanta-ar-leanuint\/","title":{"rendered":"Na hUimhreacha Pearsanta (ar lean\u00faint)"},"content":{"rendered":"

(le R\u00f3isl\u00edn)<\/strong><\/p>\n

Cail\u00edn? Chail\u00edn? Cail\u00edn\u00ed? Chail\u00edn\u00ed?<\/strong><\/p>\n

Mac? Mhac? Mic? Mhic?\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

So what\u2019s all that about, and what does it have to do with the \u201cpersonal numbers\u201d in Irish?<\/p>\n

What you just read is a sequence of four different forms of the word for \u201cgirl\u201d (cail\u00edn<\/strong>) and the word for \u201cson\u201d (mac<\/strong>).\u00a0 In each case, the first one is the basic form, singular, used typically as the subject of a sentence.\u00a0 The second one is the same form, lenited.\u00a0 The third form is plural, and the fourth one is plural and lenited.\u00a0 Remember, when you \u201clenite\u201d a word in Irish, you insert an \u201ch\u201d after the first consonant, causing the pronunciation to change. \u00a0Lenition occurs for over a dozen reasons in Irish; here we\u2019ll only be concerned with lenition when using personal numbers, that is, when counting people.<\/p>\n

One more twist before we move on to the actual personal numbers themselves, though.\u00a0 The word \u201ccail\u00edn<\/strong>\u201d belongs to a category called \u201can ceathr\u00fa d\u00edochlaonadh<\/strong>\u201d (the fourth declension).\u00a0 That means that is has slightly fewer forms to juggle as you use the word in different types of sentences and phrases than nouns that belong to, say, \u201can ch\u00e9ad d\u00edochlaonadh<\/strong>\u201d or \u201can c\u00faigi\u00fa d\u00edochlaonadh<\/strong>.\u201d<\/p>\n

The word \u201cmac<\/strong>,\u201d in contrast, belongs to \u201can ch\u00e9ad d\u00edochlaonadh<\/strong>\u201d (the first declension).\u00a0 So, while \u201cmic<\/strong>\u201d and \u201cmhic<\/strong>\u201d are plural forms, there are two more plural forms we\u2019ll be dealing with, \u201cmac<\/strong>\u201d and \u201cmhac<\/strong>.\u201d\u00a0 As you may have noticed, they look exactly like the first two forms in the sequence, \u201cmac<\/strong>\u201d and \u201cmhac<\/strong>.\u201d\u00a0 Depending on the specific type of sentence, \u201cmac<\/strong>\u201d can sometimes be plural, as can \u201cmhac<\/strong>.\u201d\u00a0 This isn\u2019t real common, but it can occur, so this is just a \u201cheads-up.\u201d\u00a0 Most of the time, \u201cmac<\/strong>\u201d and \u201cmhac<\/strong>\u201d will be singular.<\/p>\n

Now for the personal numbers themselves.\u00a0 There are different approaches in use today for whether the word for the people themselves should be in the singular, plural (subject form), or plural (genitive form).\u00a0 In other words, should we use \u201ccail\u00edn\u00ed\u201d (<\/strong>or \u201ccail\u00edn\u201d)<\/strong> or \u201cmic\u201d (<\/strong>or \u201cmac\u201d) <\/strong>after a word like \u201cochtar\u201d? \u00a0<\/strong>I lean toward the genitive plural (cail\u00edn\u00ed, mac<\/strong>) for three main reasons.<\/p>\n

First, it makes the most sense to me, logically.\u00a0 We\u2019re essentially saying \u201cthree of women\u201d or \u201ca trio of women\u201d in personal number phrases.\u00a0 Not that I always look for loighic, <\/strong>as such, in dealing with grammar, Irish, English, or otherwise.\u00a0 Sometimes things simply are the way they are because they are the way they are (maith dom an t-athluaiteachas!).\u00a0 <\/strong>One could study SeanGhaeilge <\/strong>and teangeola\u00edocht stairi\u00fail <\/strong>for years, and eventually piece together some explanations, but that\u2019s not everyone\u2019s idea of \u201ccraic.\u201d\u00a0 <\/strong><\/p>\n

Second, using the genitive plural is consistent with phrases like \u201cbeirt bhan\u201d <\/strong>or \u201ctri\u00far ban,\u201d <\/strong>which are quite frequently used today.\u00a0 Now these are often taught as exceptions, but originally they weren\u2019t seen as exceptions, just as the normal form to use after a personal number.\u00a0 \u201cBan\u201d <\/strong>(of women) is the genitive plural form of the word \u201cbean\u201d <\/strong>(woman), and yes, it is irregular.\u00a0 No other noun follows the exact pattern of \u201cbean<\/strong>\u201d (bean, mn\u00e1, mn\u00e1, ban<\/strong>). \u00a0In fact, there\u2019s not even a suffix (like \u201c-\u00ed\u201d or \u201c-aigh\u201d) with which to create a pattern. \u00a0\u201cBan<\/strong>\u201d is used\u00a0in phrases like \u201cbr\u00f3ga ban,\u201d <\/strong>(women\u2019s shoes), \u201cCumann na mBan\u201d <\/strong>(League of Women) <\/strong>and \u201cseomra na mban\u201d <\/strong>(women\u2019s room, i.e. women\u2019s restroom or washroom, at least in North America; in Ireland, one might simply ask, \u201cC\u00e1 bhfuil an leithreas<\/strong>?,\u201d which means \u201cWhere\u2019s the toilet?\u201d).\u00a0 <\/strong><\/p>\n

Third, the genitive plural after personal numbers is taught and referenced in many resources for modern Irish, including most dictionaries and lots of textbooks.\u00a0 So, while you will find other patterns elsewhere, this is the one I advocate.<\/p>\n

For the remainder of this blog, we\u2019ll just look at saying two and three people.\u00a0 Eventually we\u2019ll work our way back up to the twelve folks in \u201cDh\u00e1 L\u00e1 Dh\u00e9ag na Nollag<\/strong>,\u201d and maybe more (\u201ctwenty twins a-tweeting\u201d for starters?).<\/p>\n

The word for two people is \u201cbeirt\u201d <\/strong>and the word for \u201cthree people\u201d is \u201ctri\u00far.\u201d\u00a0 \u201cTri\u00far\u201d <\/strong>is based on the number \u201ctr\u00ed\u201d <\/strong>but \u201cbeirt,\u201d <\/strong>for \u201ctwo people,\u201d isn\u2019t based on the corresponding number (d\u00f3<\/strong> or dh\u00e1<\/strong>).\u00a0 \u201cBeirt<\/strong>\u201d doesn\u2019t follow the normal pattern here.\u00a0 And \u2026 it\u2019s grammatically feminine.\u00a0 Like \u201cfuinneog\u201d <\/strong>(window) or \u201cs\u00fail\u201d <\/strong>(eye), there\u2019s nothing inherently or biologically feminine about these words \u2013 it\u2019s just the grammatical category they belong to.\u00a0 Being grammatically feminine triggers lots of little changes to Irish words in general; here we\u2019ll be limited to those connected to na huimhreacha pearsanta<\/strong>. \u00a0The other personal numbers (tri\u00far, ceathrar, c\u00faigear, <\/strong>etc.), <\/strong>are all grammatically masculine, so they trigger fewer changes.<\/p>\n

Anois, na sampla\u00ed<\/strong>, using \u201ccail\u00edn,\u201d <\/strong>\u201cmac,<\/strong>\u201d and \u201cbean,<\/strong>\u201d since their various forms have been shown in this blog:<\/p>\n

beirt chail\u00edn\u00ed, beirt mhac, beirt bhan<\/strong>: in these phrases, the words for the people are all in the genitive plural.\u00a0 In some cases, the form is identical to other uses, like \u201cmo chail\u00edn\u00ed<\/strong>\u201d or \u201car mhac She\u00e1in,<\/strong>\u201d but that\u2019s a matter for blag eile<\/strong>.<\/p>\n

Because the word \u201cbeirt<\/strong>\u201d is grammatically feminine, it triggers lenition, changing \u201ccail\u00edn\u00ed<\/strong>\u201d to \u201cchail\u00edn\u00ed<\/strong>,\u201d \u201cmac<\/strong>\u201d to \u201cmhac<\/strong>,\u201d and \u201cban<\/strong>\u201d to \u201cbhan<\/strong>.\u201d<\/p>\n

Once we start with \u201ctri\u00far\u201d<\/strong> and larger numbers, the lenition goes away!<\/p>\n

tri\u00far cail\u00edn\u00ed, tri\u00far mac, tri\u00far ban<\/strong><\/p>\n

That\u2019s enough for now, I\u2019d say.\u00a0 It may seem more complicated than it really is.\u00a0 But if that\u2019s so, it\u2019s because there are different interpretations of this system.\u00a0 Whichever interpretation is followed, though, lenition will still be needed.\u00a0 Imagine life for the Octomom (*ochtamhama\u00ed?<\/strong>) if she were an Irish-speaker!<\/p>\n

Some of this was addressed in previous blogs, like that of 10 L\u00fanasa<\/strong> 2009; so you might want to also check there for further details and examples of personal numbers.<\/p>\n

And, by the way, in case you\u2019ve been wondering, \u201cCan\u2019t I just use the regular bunuimhreacha<\/strong> for counting people?\u201d\u00a0 Dh\u00e1 mhonca\u00ed<\/strong> (two monkeys), so why not \u201cdh\u00e1<\/strong>\u201d with \u201ccail\u00edn<\/strong>\u201d or \u201cmac<\/strong>\u201d?\u00a0 Bhuel<\/strong>, the answer is basically \u201cno.\u201d\u00a0 The rare ways to \u201cworkaround\u201d the personal number system involve other endings and more lenition, so at best it would be a case of \u201cdh\u00e1 r\u00e9al<\/strong>\u201d vs. \u201cscilling<\/strong>\u201d (two sixpences vs. a shilling, which was valued at twelvepence, in pre-decimcal, pre-euro currency).\u00a0 In other words, six of one, half a dozen of the other.\u00a0 But practically speaking, the system above is far more frequently used than the alternative.<\/p>\n

Gluais:<\/strong> athluaiteachas<\/strong>, tautology; maith dom<\/strong>, forgive me; teangeola\u00edocht<\/strong>, linguistics.\u00a0 As for *ochtamhama\u00ed<\/strong>, no sign of that word yet in the world of online Irish, so, yeah, I judiciously made it up.\u00a0 Molta\u00ed ar bith eile<\/strong>?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

(le R\u00f3isl\u00edn) Cail\u00edn? Chail\u00edn? Cail\u00edn\u00ed? Chail\u00edn\u00ed? Mac? Mhac? Mic? Mhic?\u00a0 So what\u2019s all that about, and what does it have to do with the \u201cpersonal numbers\u201d in Irish? What you just read is a sequence of four different forms of the word for \u201cgirl\u201d (cail\u00edn) and the word for \u201cson\u201d (mac).\u00a0 In each case, the…<\/p>\n

Continue Reading<\/a><\/p>","protected":false},"author":36,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"content-type":""},"categories":[3898],"tags":[4268,4301,4329,5957,306907,306909,6080,306908,6128,34569,7193,7234],"class_list":["post-603","post","type-post","status-publish","hentry","category-irish-language","tag-ban","tag-bean","tag-beirt","tag-mac","tag-mban","tag-mhac","tag-mhic","tag-mic","tag-mna","tag-personal-number","tag-triur","tag-uimhreacha-pearsanta"],"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/603","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/36"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=603"}],"version-history":[{"count":10,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/603\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":4789,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/603\/revisions\/4789"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=603"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=603"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=603"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}