{"id":8536,"date":"2016-10-27T10:13:41","date_gmt":"2016-10-27T10:13:41","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/?p=8536"},"modified":"2016-11-29T19:16:57","modified_gmt":"2016-11-29T19:16:57","slug":"if-the-other-grandfather-is-grandpa-what-irish-term-can-you-use","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/if-the-other-grandfather-is-grandpa-what-irish-term-can-you-use\/","title":{"rendered":"If the other grandfather is “Grandpa,” what Irish term can you use?"},"content":{"rendered":"

(le R\u00f3isl\u00edn)<\/strong><\/p>\n

\"Ceann<\/a>

Ceann de na seanaithreacha is cl\u00fait\u00ed i litr\u00edocht. C\u00e9 h\u00e9 an fear seo? L\u00e9igh leat le f\u00e1il amach. (grafaic: By Jessie Willcox Smith (1863-1935) [Public domain], via Wikimedia Commons; bearrtha)<\/em><\/p><\/div>Here, as previously promised, is a review of Irish words for “grandfather,” “grandpa,” and “grand(d)ad,” written as a companion piece to the recent post, “If the other grandmother is “Grandma,” what Irish term can you use?”<\/p>\n

As we’ll see, the same three adjectives can be used to create the word “grandfather” from “father” as were used to create “grandmother” from “mother.”\u00a0 They are “sean<\/strong>,” “cr\u00edonna<\/strong>,” and “m\u00f3r<\/strong>.”\u00a0 There is also the more familiar form, “Daideo<\/strong>,” and at least two more forms that are closer to “grandad,” using “daid<\/strong>” and “cr\u00edonna<\/strong>” or “m\u00f3r<\/strong>.”<\/p>\n

BTW, in English, there are two acceptable spellings, for the “-dad” variation, “grandad” and “granddad.”\u00a0 For this post, I’m going to stick to “grandad.”\u00a0 Somehow, looking at the two-D version always makes me want to pronounce it like the Welsh double-d in “eisteddfod<\/em>” and “Caerdydd<\/em>.”<\/p>\n

Starting on the more formal side, we have the following for basic forms and direct address forms:<\/p>\n

1) seanathair<\/strong> [SHAN-AH-hirzh<\/sup>, the “t” is silent], grandfather, lit. old father<\/p>\n

in direct address: “A Sheanathair!<\/strong>” [uh HAN-AH-hirzh<\/sup>, note that the “s” is now silent]<\/p>\n

2) \u00a0athair cr\u00edonna<\/strong>, grandfather, lit. wise father<\/p>\n

in direct address: “A Athair chr\u00edonna!<\/strong>” [uh AH-hirzh<\/sup> HRzh<\/sup>EE-uh-nuh]\u00a0 Note that the “c” is now silent.\u00a0 The remaining sound, “-hr\u00ed-,” is a bit like the “hr” of “Hrothgar,” but with the “r” sound of “tree” or the Czech name “Ji\u0159\u00ed<\/em>.” \u00a0This “r” sound is widely found in Irish, in words like “Muire<\/strong>,” “M\u00e1ire<\/strong>,” “tirim<\/strong>,” and “t\u00edr<\/strong>.”<\/p>\n

3) athair m\u00f3r<\/strong>, grandfather, lit. great or large father. \u00a0“M\u00f3r<\/strong>” can also be translated as “grand,” but it’s not “grand” as in the typical sense of “fine” or “elegant.”\u00a0 Those would be “bre\u00e1<\/strong>” (fine) or “gal\u00e1nta<\/strong>” (elegant, stylish, genteel)<\/p>\n

in direct address: “A Athair mh\u00f3ir!<\/strong>” [uh AH-hirzh <\/sup>WORzh <\/sup>or VORzh<\/sup>\u00a0— note that the “mh” has a “w” or “v” sound].\u00a0 The “r” of “mh\u00f3ir<\/strong>” is now “slender,” like the “r” of “athair<\/strong>.”\u00a0 Both are represented here by the superscript “zh.” \u00a0As noted above, this is the “r” sound of “tree” (but without the “t” sound) and like the “\u0159” of the Czech “Ji\u0159\u00ed<\/em>,” and as in “Muire<\/strong>,” “M\u00e1ire<\/strong>,” “tirim<\/strong>,” and “t\u00edr<\/strong>.”<\/p>\n

The remaining terms are more like saying “grandpa,” or “grandad.”<\/p>\n

4) Daideo<\/strong> [DADJ-yoh] It’s two syllables even though it may look like three; it’s not pronounced like the Beatnik-era “Daddy-O.”<\/p>\n

in direct address: “A Dhaideo!<\/strong>” [uh \u0263ADJ- yoh].\u00a0 The initial “dh” sound has no parallel in English and it doesn’t have many parallels in the European languages most readers here are likely familiar with.\u00a0 It’s found in a small number of other languages, including Scottish Gaelic, West Frisian, Lithuanian, most Dutch, and Arabic and in some dialect pronunciations of German “sagen<\/em>” and Spanish “agua<\/em>.”\u00a0 You can hear the sound at the “voiced velar fricative” article in Wikipedia (https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Voiced_velar_fricative<\/em>).\u00a0 Since this sound can’t be represented well in the Roman alphabet, the symbol \/\u0263\/ is used, based on the Greek gamma sign. This is also the sound of the “dh” in the Irish phrases “Dia dhuit<\/strong>” and “a Dh\u00f3nail<\/strong>.”<\/p>\n

This is the term used in “Bran agus a Dhaideo<\/strong>,” the Irish translation of “Spot Loves his Grandpa,” by Eric Hill, a companion book to the charming “Bran agus a Mham\u00f3,” <\/strong>mentioned in the last blogpost. \u00a0“Bran,<\/strong>” meaning “raven,” is a classic dog’s name in Irish and so replaces “Spot” for the puppy. \u00a0With the raven connection, it’s often used for black dogs, not tawny ones like Spot, but it’s not as though dogs named “Bran<\/strong>” have to be black.<\/p>\n

5) Daid m\u00f3r<\/strong>, lit. great or large Dad.<\/p>\n

in direct address, “A Dhaid mh\u00f3ir!<\/strong>” [uh \u0263ADJ WORzh<\/sup>], with the “dh,” “mh,” and “-ir” as noted above.<\/p>\n

6) Daid cr\u00edonna<\/strong>, lit. wise Dad<\/p>\n

in direct address, “A Dhaid chr\u00edonna!<\/strong>” [uh \u0263ADJ \u00a0HRzh<\/sup>EE-uh-nuh, with the “dh” and “chr” as noted above. \u00a0So that’s six variations on the theme of “grandfather.”\u00a0 Any more, anybody?<\/p>\n

And did you recognize the “seanathair<\/strong>” in the picture above?\u00a0 ‘S \u00e9, is \u00e9 seanathair Heidi \u00e9, san \u00farsc\u00e9al<\/strong> Heidi<\/em> le Johanna Spyri<\/strong>. \u00a0\u00a0In the English translations I’ve seen, she always calls him “grandfather,” not “grandad” or grandpa” or some other familiar form.\u00a0 Just to mix it up even more, he is also referred to locally as “the Alm-Uncle.”\u00a0 I think when I read this as a child, I must have thought that this “Alm-” was related to “alms,” that the grandfather wouldn’t accept “alms,” despite his difficult living situation.\u00a0 Looking further into this character for this blogpost, however, I see that “Alm-” actually means “Alp” as in “Alpine.”\u00a0 “Uncle” was used because this was a community name.\u00a0 While he wasn’t technically anyone’s uncle, that we know of, it was kind of an honorary nickname for him.\u00a0 Apparently in German he would have been either “Alp\u00f6hi<\/em>” or “Alm\u00f6hi<\/em>,” and in theory, he could have been called the “Alp-Uncle” in the English version.\u00a0 Why wasn’t he?\u00a0 Well, onomastic wonders never cease!\u00a0 Is “Alm-uncle” considered easier to say than “Alp-uncle”?\u00a0 N\u00edl a fhios agam<\/strong>.\u00a0 Maybe someone reading this has some more insight into “Gearm\u00e1inis na hEilv\u00e9ise<\/strong>” (the German of Switzerland).\u00a0 At any rate, it’s interesting to see the same character referred to as a grandfather (to Heidi) and an uncle (to the community, even though he has distanced himself from it).<\/p>\n

Curious, too, that the mother of Peter the goatherd is called “Bridget” in some English translations, but I just checked the German and apparently she’s Brigitte in the original, so I don’t think there’s any implied Irishness.\u00a0 That would have been a casadh suimi\u00fail<\/strong> (an interesting twist)!<\/p>\n

To close, I’ve translated one of Heidi\u2019s lines from English into Irish.\u00a0 Anyone care to translate it back into English, or any other language you speak?\u00a0 German would be especially interesting, since that’s the language the book was originally written in.\u00a0 At any rate, it makes a nice quote, and I could readily imagine it on a greeting card for Grandparents’ Day.\u00a0 Hmm, maybe I should go into c\u00e1rta\u00ed beannachta<\/strong> as a business!<\/p>\n

Seo an t-athfhriotal: “B’fhearr liom a bheith ar an Alp le mo sheanathair n\u00e1 in \u00e1it ar bith eile ar domhan.” — Heidi<\/strong><\/p>\n

SGF, agus le smaointe cean\u00fala faoi mo sheanathair (athair m’athar) f\u00e9in at\u00e1 ar shl\u00ed na f\u00edrinne le blianta fada anuas.\u00a0 Ar an drochuair n\u00ed raibh aithne riamh agam ar an seanathair eile (athair mo mh\u00e1thar). — R\u00f3isl\u00edn .<\/strong><\/p>\n

Nasc<\/strong>: for a little more on the “Dad” (Daid<\/strong>) element of all of this, please see: How To Pronounce \u2018A Dheaide,\u2019 \u2018A Dhaid\u00ed,\u2019 and Other Forms of \u2018Dad\/Daddy\u2019 in Irish<\/a>, <\/em>Posted by\u00a0r\u00f3isl\u00edn<\/a>\u00a0on Jun 6, 2013 in\u00a0Irish Language<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"\"\"

(le R\u00f3isl\u00edn) Here, as previously promised, is a review of Irish words for “grandfather,” “grandpa,” and “grand(d)ad,” written as a companion piece to the recent post, “If the other grandmother is “Grandma,” what Irish term can you use?” As we’ll see, the same three adjectives can be used to create the word “grandfather” from “father”…<\/p>\n

Continue Reading<\/a><\/p>","protected":false},"author":36,"featured_media":8537,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"content-type":""},"categories":[3898],"tags":[460884,474586,474590,474584,350264,474585,474583,13487,4236,4460,474581,474594,4830,9756,4889,289891,384312,474595,390669,5423,5424,5425,5426,5427,5428,5434,474587,474588,5985,474597,390673,6076,474596,309652,390671,365375,6138,474599,474598,11,6738,474593,474589,33080],"class_list":["post-8536","post","type-post","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-irish-language","tag-abuela","tag-alm-ohi","tag-alm-uncle","tag-almohi","tag-alp","tag-alp-ohi","tag-alpohi","tag-alps","tag-athair","tag-bridget","tag-brigitte","tag-chrionna","tag-crionna","tag-daid","tag-daideo","tag-dhaid","tag-dhaideo","tag-grampa","tag-grandad","tag-granddad","tag-grandfather","tag-grandma","tag-grandmother","tag-grandpa","tag-grandparent","tag-granny","tag-heidi","tag-johanna","tag-mamo","tag-meemaw","tag-mhamo","tag-mhathair","tag-mhoir","tag-mhor","tag-mhorai","tag-mor","tag-morai","tag-nonna","tag-oma","tag-pronunciation","tag-seanathair","tag-sheanathair","tag-spyri","tag-swiss-german"],"aioseo_notices":[],"aioseo_head":"\n\t\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t\n\t\t