{"id":951,"date":"2011-06-06T16:15:16","date_gmt":"2011-06-06T16:15:16","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/?p=951"},"modified":"2011-06-18T03:43:54","modified_gmt":"2011-06-18T03:43:54","slug":"whither-%e2%80%9cnathair%e2%80%9d-mar-%e2%80%9cathair%e2%80%9d-no-mar-%e2%80%9cchathair%e2%80%9d","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/whither-%e2%80%9cnathair%e2%80%9d-mar-%e2%80%9cathair%e2%80%9d-no-mar-%e2%80%9cchathair%e2%80%9d\/","title":{"rendered":"Whither \u201cNathair\u201d? Mar \u201cAthair\u201d n\u00f3 Mar \u201cChathair\u201d?"},"content":{"rendered":"

(le R\u00f3isl\u00edn)<\/strong><\/p>\n

So, you\u2019re staring at the Irish word \u201cnathair<\/strong>\u201d and wondering which way to go for its tuiseal ginideach <\/strong>and its foirmeacha iolra.\u00a0\u00a0 <\/strong>Is it going to be like \u201ccathair<\/strong>\u201d or is it going to be like \u201cathair<\/strong>\u201d?<\/p>\n

Before we actually answer that (why cut to the chase when we can prevaricate and still learn even more Irish?), let\u2019s imagine the context in which you\u2019re using the word \u201cnathair<\/strong>\u201d (snake) to begin with.\u00a0 Well, you might be reading \u201cGeineasas<\/strong>\u201d (3:1): \u201cBa ghlice an nathair nimhe n\u00e1 aon ainmh\u00ed allta<\/strong>\u2026 .\u201d\u00a0 Aistri\u00fach\u00e1n th\u00edos<\/strong>.\u00a0<\/p>\n

Or you might be talking about your run-of-the-mill Natrix natrix<\/em> (aka nathair fh\u00e9ir<\/strong>, grass snake), one of relatively few snake species found in Britain, though not native to Ireland (naturally, thanks to Naomh P\u00e1draig agus\/n\u00f3 geola\u00edocht<\/strong>).\u00a0 Since this same N. natrix<\/em> apparently lives near water and is also known as a \u201cwater snake,\u201d I\u2019m somewhat intrigued as to who decided it would be called \u201cnathair fh\u00e9ir<\/strong>\u201d (lit. snake of grass) in Irish.\u00a0 Probably I won\u2019t ever know but presumably it wasn\u2019t na SeanGhaeil iad f\u00e9in<\/strong>.\u00a0 They would have had their hands full with naming the various earca, earc\u00e1in, p\u00e9isteanna,<\/strong> and buafa<\/strong> that actually do inhabit Ireland, not to mention na hainmhithe osnad\u00fartha, mar chait ocht gcos<\/strong> (assuming there was more than one) agus na heich uisce <\/strong>(again, in the plural here, though, come to think of it, there tends to be only one per finsc\u00e9al).\u00a0 <\/strong>And if not that nathair neamhnimhneach <\/strong>(N. natrix<\/em>) <\/strong>perhaps a little more adrenalin-pumpingly, some type of nathair shligreach, <\/strong>as for example, nathair shligreach Aruba <\/strong>(Crotalus durissus<\/em>) or nathair shligreach iomairshr\u00f3nach <\/strong>(Crotalus willardi<\/em>). \u00a0Or, and here you can fill in the plural if you like (freagra thios), <\/strong>you could be having a general discussion about\u00a0 \u00a0_____________ nimhneacha eile<\/strong>, such as cobra\u00ed<\/strong> or mambanna dubha.<\/strong> \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n

More benignly, you might be wondering how to translate the name of the boardgame, Snakes and Ladders.\u00a0 Bhuel<\/strong>, \u201cladder\u201d (singular) is \u201cdr\u00e9imire<\/strong>,\u201d so, care to hazard a well-crafted guess?\u00a0 _________ agus ______.\u00a0 It\u2019s quite straightforward.\u00a0 Freagra th\u00edos. \u00a0<\/strong>And if you\u2019re feeling adventurous, you could translate it into its more commercialized Milton Bradley name, \u201cChutes and Ladders,\u201d (freagra<\/strong> is also th\u00edos<\/strong>).\u00a0 \u00a0\u00a0<\/p>\n

And finally, just to make sure we\u2019re getting the \u201cginideach uatha<\/strong>\u201d into the mix, who knows when the next cocktail party will offer you the chance to chat knowledgeably about viper\u2019s bugloss (lus na ________; freagra th\u00edos<\/strong>) or to discuss whether there is one or more than one adder in Carn na ________,<\/strong> in northern Scotland (hint: elevation for this \u201ccarn\u201d is 786m, and freagra<\/strong> also th\u00edos<\/strong>).\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 \u00a0<\/p>\n

If you\u2019re on the \u201cginideach uatha<\/strong>\u201d trail, you\u2019ll probably want to ditch the reference I found online to the Dungeons & Dragons translation for \u201cTemple of the Serpent.\u201d\u00a0 They got the \u201cna<\/strong> __________\u201d part right, but then overdid it by trying to add the preposition \u201cde<\/strong>\u201d (of, but “de<\/strong>” is \u201cpartitive,\u201d not \u201cpossessive\u201d).\u00a0 Another problem with the translation, and another rainy-day topic, is that whoever translated the phrase also used \u201cseipeal<\/strong>\u201d [sic] (no \u201cfadas\u201d), which means either \u201cchapel\u201d or \u201cCatholic church,\u201d not \u201ctemple.\u201d \u00a0<\/p>\n

By now, you\u2019ve probably either analysed, deduced, remembered, channeled, or otherwise figured out the forms that go in the blanks.\u00a0 Bottom line is that that \u201cnathair<\/strong>\u201d works like \u201ccathair, cathrach, cathracha<\/strong>,\u201d not like \u201cathair, athar, aithreacha<\/strong>.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n

m\u00e9id na nathrach<\/strong>, the size of the snake<\/p>\n

m\u00e9id na cathrach<\/strong>, the size of the city<\/p>\n

There aren\u2019t too many other phrases that one could nicely parallel like that, since we generally distinguish quite clearly between snakes and cities.\u00a0 Though we could ponder \u201cGn\u00e9as agus an Chathair<\/strong>\u201d and \u201cGn\u00e9as agus an Nathair<\/strong>,\u201d at least for argument\u2019s sake.<\/p>\n

For the plurals:<\/p>\n

na cathracha,<\/strong> the cities\u00a0<\/p>\n

na nathracha,<\/strong> the snakes<\/p>\n

Hmmm, na nathracha nimhe \u2026 na cathracha nimhe<\/strong> \u2026 . A statement on mankind\u2019s so-called \u201cprogress\u201d?<\/p>\n

Well, on that n\u00f3ta meabhraitheach<\/strong>, sgf go dt\u00ed an ch\u00e9ad uair eile, \u00f3 R\u00f3isl\u00edn<\/strong><\/p>\n

Aistri\u00fach\u00e1n (Geineasas 3:1):<\/strong> The serpent (lit. snake of poison) was more cunning than any wild animal \u2026 .<\/p>\n

Freagra\u00ed:<\/strong> nathracha<\/strong> (plural of \u201cnathair<\/strong>\u201d);\u00a0 Snakes and Ladders, Nathracha agus Dr\u00e9imir\u00ed.<\/strong>\u00a0 For the \u201cchutes\u201d version, I\u2019d use \u201csleamhn\u00e1in<\/strong>.\u201d\u00a0 Viper\u2019s bugloss: lus na nathrach<\/strong>.\u00a0 Scottish mountain: Carn na Nathrach<\/strong>, translated as \u201cthe cairn of the adders,\u201d although it would seem to me it should be translated as singular (the cairn of the adder).\u00a0 The Scottish Gaelic plural for their word \u201cnathair<\/em>\u201d is normally \u201cnathraichean<\/em>,\u201d but, sorting all that out is definitely \u00e1bhar blag eile<\/strong>.\u00a0 Temple of the Serpent, for the Dungeons & Dragons game, would normally be \u201cTeampall na Nathrach<\/strong>,\u201d no \u201cde<\/strong>\u201d needed.\u00a0 Using \u201cseipeal<\/strong>\u201d [sic] and essentially saying \u201cThe Snake\u2019s Chapel\u201d sets up a whole new angle on the scenario..\u00a0<\/p>\n

Gluais: buaf<\/strong>, toad; earc,<\/strong> lizard; earc\u00e1n<\/strong>, worm (used specifically for the \u201cblind- or slow-worm\u201d); iomairshr\u00f3nach<\/strong>, ridge-nosed; p\u00e9ist<\/strong>, worm in general, though in various combinations this word can also mean monster, whale, snake, etc.); sligreach<\/strong>, rattle- (as in \u201c-snake\u201d; as opposed to a glig\u00edn<\/strong>, which is for a leanbh<\/strong>),<\/p>\n

N\u00f3ta maidir le \u201cmamba dubh\u201d agus \u201cmambanna dubha\u201d<\/strong> (black mamba, -s): yes, I\u2019ve gone out on a bit of a limb here for the plural since I find no precedent for it, online or otherwise.\u00a0 If anyone knows of one, please let us know.\u00a0 I considered *mamba\u00ed<\/strong>\u201d but somehow \u201cmambanna<\/strong>\u201d seems to work better.\u00a0 \u201cMamba\u00ed<\/strong>\u201d looks too much like a) the place name Mambai in Brazil, b) the place name Mumbai in India, and c) the Irish word \u201cmama\u00ed<\/strong>,\u201d and furthermore, at least to me, \u201cmamba\u00ed<\/strong>\u201d has a little too much of a namby-pamby-Bambi cutesy-wootsy feel.\u00a0 In both cases, the word \u201cmamba<\/strong>\u201d would still be 4th<\/sup>-declension, though.\u00a0 But you knew that, right?\u00a0<\/p>\n

N\u00f3ta a D\u00f3 maidir le \u201cmamba dubh\u201d: <\/strong>Technically, we should probably be saying \u201cmamba b\u00e9aldubh<\/strong>,\u201d since only its mouth is actually black, but if \u201cmamba noir<\/em>,\u201d \u201cmamba negra<\/em>,\u201d and \u201cSchwarze Mamba<\/em>\u201d all make do (dubh<\/strong>?) without specifying the mouth, we may as well leave well enough alone.\u00a0 For the drochimeartas focal<\/strong> there, you\u2019d have to say \u201cdubh<\/strong>\u201d as it\u2019s pronounced in the North (like \u201cdoo\u201d), not with the more southern\/Standard v-final \u201cduv\u201d sound. \u00a0But you knew that too, right?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

(le R\u00f3isl\u00edn) So, you\u2019re staring at the Irish word \u201cnathair\u201d and wondering which way to go for its tuiseal ginideach and its foirmeacha iolra.\u00a0\u00a0 Is it going to be like \u201ccathair\u201d or is it going to be like \u201cathair\u201d? Before we actually answer that (why cut to the chase when we can prevaricate and still…<\/p>\n

Continue Reading<\/a><\/p>","protected":false},"author":36,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"content-type":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[32980,4036,4236,4239,32981,32975,32985,32987,32977,32983,6222,32982,32984,32986,32976,32979,32978],"class_list":["post-951","post","type-post","status-publish","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-5th-declension","tag-aithreacha","tag-athair","tag-athar","tag-carn-na-nathrach","tag-cathair","tag-cathrach","tag-cathracha","tag-cobra","tag-geineasas","tag-nathair","tag-nathair-nimhe","tag-nathrach","tag-nathracha","tag-natrix","tag-neamhnimhneach","tag-nimhneach"],"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/951","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/36"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=951"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/951\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":954,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/951\/revisions\/954"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=951"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=951"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=951"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}