{"id":9616,"date":"2017-09-07T18:06:35","date_gmt":"2017-09-07T18:06:35","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/?p=9616"},"modified":"2017-09-14T11:55:08","modified_gmt":"2017-09-14T11:55:08","slug":"when-is-a-dogs-dinner-not-a-dogs-dinner-some-irish-vocabulary-notes-for-mess","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/when-is-a-dogs-dinner-not-a-dogs-dinner-some-irish-vocabulary-notes-for-mess\/","title":{"rendered":"When Is a Dog’s Dinner Not a ‘Dog’s Dinner’?: Some Irish Vocabulary Notes for “Mess”"},"content":{"rendered":"

(le R\u00f3isl\u00edn)<\/strong><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a><\/p>\n

I recently heard some commentary on the radio equating the plans for Brexit (Breatimeacht<\/strong>) with a dog’s dinner.\u00a0 And that got me thinking about another use of caint fh\u00e1thchiallach \/ mheafarach<\/strong>, since we talked about the issue in the latest post (nasc th\u00edos<\/strong>). Although “dog’s dinner,” as such, is not a traditional metaphorical expression in Irish (afaik), the Irish language has its share of words for saying that something is a mess.<\/p>\n

So, let’s start with a couple of Irish words for “mess”:<\/p>\n

praiseach<\/strong>, mess, also: pottage, thin porridge, gruel, and curiously, wild cabbage or kale (the latter also known as “c\u00e1l”<\/p>\n

foirmeacha an fhocail: praiseach, an phraiseach, na prais\u00ed (gan uimhir iolra, de ghn\u00e1th)<\/strong><\/p>\n

brach\u00e1n<\/strong>, mess, porridge, or stirabout.\u00a0 Not specifically “thin” porridge, but one can add the word “lom” (bare) to it (not “tana\u00ed,” for thin people or animals), to change the meaning to “thin porridge” or “gruel.” \u00a0That also gives us the song “Brochan lom<\/em>,” in Scottish Gaelic, but easy to understand if you know Irish.<\/p>\n

foirmeacha an fhocail: brach\u00e1n, an brach\u00e1n, an bhrach\u00e1in (gan uimhir iolra, de ghn\u00e1th)<\/strong><\/p>\n

Interesting — I wonder how many other languages have two ways of comparing a “mess” to “porridge.”<\/p>\n

And there is a third, non-porridge-related choice.\u00a0 Hmm, [I never thought I’d end up using that tripartite compound adjective!\u00a0 Ar aon chaoi, seo \u00e9: pr\u00e1c\u00e1s<\/strong>, mess, medley or hodgepodge.\u00a0 No particular tie-in to foods such as porridge or gruel, but can be used to describe food: pr\u00e1c\u00e1s bia, messy food, lit. a mess of food, a “food mess”<\/p>\n

foirmeacha an fhocail: pr\u00e1c\u00e1s, an pr\u00e1c\u00e1s, an phr\u00e1c\u00e1is (gan uimhir iolra, de ghn\u00e1th)<\/strong><\/p>\n

By the way, there is an additional, more basic word for porridge, with no particular implications of thickness or thinness: leite, an leite, na leitean (gan uimhir iolra).<\/strong><\/p>\n

And lo and behold, wouldn’t you know it, there’s also the phrase “smeadar leitean<\/strong>” (a mess of soft porridge).\u00a0 Interesting, I get “thick” and “thin,” in porridge, but never really thought of porridge as being “soft” or “not soft.”\u00a0 Anyway, I feel another blog topic coming on!<\/p>\n

So, those were some of the typical words for “mess” in Irish.\u00a0 Now, since the topic was raised, if you’re wondering how to literally say, “the dinner of the dog” in Irish, it would be “dinn\u00e9ar an mhadra<\/strong>” or “dinn\u00e9ar an mhadaidh<\/strong>” (Northern dialect). \u00a0\u00a0The vocab is:<\/p>\n

dinn\u00e9ar<\/strong>, dinner (a pretty easy word to learn)<\/p>\n

madra<\/strong>, dog, OR: madadh<\/strong>, dog.\u00a0 In the possessive form, madra becomes “mhadra” and “madadh” becomes “mhadaidh,” with the “dh” silent.\u00a0 The “mh” isn’t pronounced like an “m” plus an “h.”\u00a0 It’s a consonant cluster, usually pronounced like a “w” or sometimes like a “v.”\u00a0 For “mhadaidh” {WAH-dee], I’d say it’s virtually always a “w” sound.<\/p>\n

To just say “a dog’s dinner” (a dinner of a dog) would be: dinn\u00e9ar madra<\/strong> OR dinn\u00e9ar madaidh<\/strong>.<\/p>\n

But just as a reminder, I don’t recall ever hearing this dog’s dinner expression used figuratively in Irish, to mean “mess.”\u00a0 In fact, I’ve really only heard or seen it occasionally in Irish as an actual reference to feeding dogs.\u00a0 In my experience (as the owner of “dh\u00e1 mhadra \/ dh\u00e1 mhadadh,” we usually just say, “Did you feed the dogs yet?” not “Did you give the dogs their dinner?”\u00a0 And I can’t say I’ve heard that many references in Irish to giving the dogs dinner<\/em> as opposed to simply feeding them.\u00a0 Searching on Google doesn’t bring up any figurative usages, just a few grammar citations, mostly going back to N\u00ed Ghr\u00e1da’s Progress in Irish (n.d. but ca. 1965), where she uses “the dog’s dinner” as an example for teaching “an tuiseal ginideach.”<\/p>\n

So that’s mess, mess, mess, porridge, a mess of soft porridge, and an actual dog’s dinner in Irish.\u00a0 And by the way, it’s not only the Brexit plans that might be described in UK English as a “dog’s dinner.”\u00a0 Umpteen other things and situations as well.\u00a0 A recent jaunt through Internet brought up references economic policies in general, da Vinci’s The Last Supper<\/em>, and a near canine-caused calamity at the Chelsea Flower Show\u00a0 (that one was luckily a near miss, though; the flowers survived).\u00a0 Naisc don d\u00e1 alt sin th\u00edos<\/strong>.<\/p>\n

Now if only I had been writing a blog for Welsh, I could have said, “When is a dog’s dinner not a dog’s dinner?” and answered “When it’s a “traed moch<\/em>.”\u00a0 “Traed moc<\/em>h” is a great figurative expression, literally meaning “pigs’ feet.”\u00a0 Actually, I think there are more than a few dogs around who would happily consume pigs’ feet, known as cr\u00faib\u00edn\u00ed<\/strong> in Irish, for “a ndinn\u00e9ar<\/strong>” (their dinner).\u00a0 \u00a0Hmm, an ag prisl\u00edneacht at\u00e1 na madra\u00ed, ag \u00e9isteacht leis sin?<\/strong>\u00a0 But that’s another matter altogether.\u00a0 \u00a0Hope I haven’t made too much of a mess, hash, muddle, shambles, jumble or chaos of this topic.\u00a0 And I see the next few blog topics looming imminently before me.\u00a0 Go dt\u00ed sin, SGF — R\u00f3isl\u00edn<\/strong><\/p>\n

Naisc<\/strong>: Three Ways to Say \u201cKeeping Your Nose to the Grindstone\u201d in Irish without Using the Words for \u201cNose\u201d or \u201cGrindstone\u201d \u2013\u00a0 Is \u00e9 sin a r\u00e1, cora cainte at\u00e1 difri\u00fail ar fad i bhfocla\u00edocht ach mar a gc\u00e9anna (beagnach) i gciall<\/a>Posted by\u00a0r\u00f3isl\u00edn<\/a>\u00a0on Aug 31, 2017 in\u00a0Irish Language<\/a><\/p>\n

For a little bit more on “samhlacha<\/strong>,” I remind you again of this one:\u00a0Li\u00fadair go dt\u00ed a) an Caisle\u00e1n Nua, b) an Aithin n\u00f3 go c) Toraigh?<\/a>Posted by\u00a0r\u00f3isl\u00edn<\/a>\u00a0on May 15, 2012 in\u00a0Irish Language<\/a><\/p>\n

And c\u00fapla nasc<\/strong>, especially since “dog’s dinner” is not very widely used in the US as slang and it might be fun for the Meirice\u00e1naigh here to see a few more examples:<\/p>\n

https:\/\/www.theguardian.com\/culture\/1999\/may\/25\/artsfeatures3, “The Last Supper or a dog’s dinner? After the latest 21-year restoration of Leonardo’s masterpiece some critics can see little of the original, by Philip Willan, 24 May 1999<\/p>\n

http:\/\/www.kentonline.co.uk\/kent\/news\/flower-show-exhibit-was-almost-a-a38683\/, Flower show exhibit was almost a dog’s dinner, Published:\u00a014:56, 27 May 2008, Updated:\u00a015:00, 27 May 2008<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"\"\"

(le R\u00f3isl\u00edn) I recently heard some commentary on the radio equating the plans for Brexit (Breatimeacht) with a dog’s dinner.\u00a0 And that got me thinking about another use of caint fh\u00e1thchiallach \/ mheafarach, since we talked about the issue in the latest post (nasc th\u00edos). Although “dog’s dinner,” as such, is not a traditional metaphorical…<\/p>\n

Continue Reading<\/a><\/p>","protected":false},"author":36,"featured_media":9619,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"content-type":""},"categories":[3898],"tags":[489799,489798,229900,5966,411190,229679,489800,32966],"class_list":["post-9616","post","type-post","status-publish","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-irish-language","tag-brachan","tag-dinnear","tag-madadh","tag-madra","tag-mhadaidh","tag-mhadra","tag-pracas","tag-praiseach"],"aioseo_notices":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/9616","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/36"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=9616"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/9616\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":9621,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/9616\/revisions\/9621"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/9619"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=9616"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=9616"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=9616"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}