{"id":9879,"date":"2017-11-26T21:20:46","date_gmt":"2017-11-26T21:20:46","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/?p=9879"},"modified":"2019-09-04T10:48:34","modified_gmt":"2019-09-04T10:48:34","slug":"ar-muin-or-mhuin-or-dhroim-na-muice-an-irish-expression-for-in-luck","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/blogs.transparent.com\/irish\/ar-muin-or-mhuin-or-dhroim-na-muice-an-irish-expression-for-in-luck\/","title":{"rendered":"Ar ‘muin’ or ‘mhuin’ or ‘dhroim’ na muice: an Irish expression for “in luck”"},"content":{"rendered":"

\u00a0(le R\u00f3isl\u00edn)<\/strong><\/p>\n

\"\"<\/a>

pig silhouette; http:\/\/www.publicdomainpictures.net\/view-image.php?image=57444<\/a>; t\u00e9acs Gaeilge & B\u00e9arla le R\u00f3isl\u00edn, 2017<\/em><\/p><\/div>\n

This blogpost will attempt to answer a question raised by reader Fergal on November 7, 2017, in response to the blogpost of May 5th, 2012, which was “Ar Dhroim (Ar Muin) na Muice: Not Quite The Same as \u201cHigh on the Hog\u201d (nasc th\u00edos<\/strong>).\u00a0 He asked, “If droim<\/strong> is lenited ‘ar dhroim<\/strong>\u2026.’ why is muin<\/strong> not lenited? What\u2019s wrong with ‘T\u00e1 t\u00fa ar mhuin na muice<\/strong>‘?<\/p>\n

One thing to clarify up front\u00a0 —\u00a0 I never said that “ar mhuin<\/strong>” was wrong.\u00a0 I never even raised the topic.\u00a0 I simply used the two expressions that I’ve seen used repeatedly (“ar dhroim<\/strong>” and “ar muin<\/strong>“).\u00a0\u00a0 These are used not just for the “pig’s back” expression, but for other types of animals as well (I’ve mostly seen “ar dhroim capaill<\/strong>” and “ar muin capaill<\/strong>,” for example).\u00a0 \u00a0And some people do say “ar mhuin<\/strong> …” so it’s not wrong, it’s just yet another variation.<\/p>\n

And that raises a broader question (what mutation, if any, follows “ar<\/strong>“) and an even broader question (Why isn’t language rational and logical, with one rule per procedure?).\u00a0 We’ll look at those two questions and then we’ll look at some further examples of “ar muin<\/strong>,” “ar mhuin<\/strong>,” and “ar dhroim<\/strong>.”\u00a0 If you’re wondering about “ar<\/strong>” + “droim<\/strong>” with no lenition, l\u00e9igh leat, le do thoil! (Pointe B, th\u00edos)<\/strong>.<\/p>\n

I.. An R\u00e9amhfhocal “ar” <\/strong>(on) — Cad a tharla\u00edonns ina dhiaidh?\u00a0 \u00a0S\u00e9imhi\u00fa?\u00a0 Ur\u00fa?\u00a0 Tada? <\/strong><\/p>\n

Regarding “ar<\/strong>,” there are three basic rules for mutation.\u00a0 The odd thing about the “ar<\/strong>” (on) + “muin<\/strong>” (back) OR “droim<\/strong>” (back) situation is that the basic concept is very similar (“on the back of”), so we might expect all forms of “on the back of” to follow the same procedure.\u00a0 But, at least in my experience, “muin<\/strong>” and “droim<\/strong>” don’t always behave the same way after “ar<\/strong>.”\u00a0\u00a0Here are the basic mutation rules for the preposition “ar<\/strong>“:<\/p>\n

1)) Lenition (s\u00e9imhi\u00fa<\/strong>) for most physical circumstances: ar bhord<\/strong> (on a table), ar chathaoir<\/strong> (on a chair), ar dh\u00edon an t\u00ed<\/strong> (on the roof of the house), ar ch\u00fal an t\u00ed<\/strong> (behind the house, lit. “on” the back of the house), etc.\u00a0\u00a0 These examples show the changes to “bord<\/strong>,” “cathaoir<\/strong>,” “d\u00edon<\/strong>,” and “c\u00fal<\/strong>.”<\/p>\n

2)) No change to the initial consonant when the phrase deals with abstract ideas, intangible things, set phrases for locations, or states of being: ar aghaidh is ar c\u00fal<\/strong> (advance and retire, in dancing), ar bord loinge<\/strong> (on board a ship — yes, the deck is tangible, but the idea of being “on board” isn’t), ar buile<\/strong> (very angry), ar c\u00edos<\/strong> (rented, rental, lit. “on rent”), ar cuairt<\/strong> (on a visit), ar meisce<\/strong> (drunk).<\/p>\n

Also, no change most of the time for the noun in compound prepositions starting with “ar<\/strong>.”\u00a0 In most of these cases, the noun involved is also abstract, or at least being used abstractly, or obscure in some other way: ar son na c\u00faise<\/strong> (for the — sake of — the cause), ar feadh m\u00edosa<\/strong> (for a month), ar fud na t\u00edre<\/strong> (throughout the land), etc.\u00a0 The nouns “feadh<\/strong>” and “fud<\/strong>” are rarely used outside these specific phrases, and “son<\/strong>” not much more.<\/p>\n

2a)) “Ar muin<\/strong>” is an exception to this “rule” and I can’t say why.\u00a0 I’m not sure if anyone knows.\u00a0 Duine ar bith amuigh ansin<\/strong>?\u00a0 It reminds me of the “ar chl\u00e9” \/ “ar cl\u00e9”<\/strong> situation.\u00a0 I’ve heard both usages constantly.\u00a0 \u00a0And why do we often hear “Ar dheis is ar cl\u00e9<\/strong>“, with a mutation for “right” and not for “left”?\u00a0 Sometimes these seeming anomalies have to do with spelling \u00a0or suffixes in the Old Irish period (roughly 1500 to 1000 years ago).\u00a0 Sometimes there are dialect issues, especially since many Gaeltachta\u00ed are surrounded by English-speaking areas.\u00a0 Sometimes there are phonological issues (what sounds more natural, even if most speakers aren’t consciously thinking about this).\u00a0 Perhaps “muin<\/strong>” and “muice<\/strong>” sound pleasantly alliterative to the ear, reinforcing the “no-lenition” choice.\u00a0 Similarly, in English, to give just one example, we advise people not to buy pigs in “pokes,” because (I assume) of the alliteration — it would make more sense these days to advise people not to buy pigs in sacks or boxes, but it doesn’t sound as good.\u00a0\u00a0 Finally, sometimes there may be no practical explanation.\u00a0 Like the little green men from Mars, it’s simply “mar sin<\/strong>” (I thought we needed a little humor after all that)!<\/p>\n

3)) Eclipsis (ur\u00fa<\/strong>): In a very few examples, we see eclipsis\u00a0after “ar<\/strong>,” as in “ar dt\u00fas<\/strong>” (at first, first), “ar nd\u00f3igh<\/strong>” (indeed, inevitably, naturally, obviously, of course, sure, etc.) and “ar gc\u00fal<\/strong>” (backwards)<\/p>\n

Already we can see that the situation is fairly complex, with three main aspects (lenition, no change, and eclipsis).\u00a0 In a way, we can also say that even if “ar dhroim<\/strong>” is one pattern, it’s not that unusual to have “ar muin<\/strong>,” since there’s a precedent for “ar<\/strong>” with no following lenition, even if the circumstances are usually different.<\/p>\n

II.. Loighic Teangacha\u00a0 (M\u00e1s Ann Di)<\/strong><\/p>\n

As for the super-broad question, why isn’t language logical, I doubt there’s a real answer anywhere.\u00a0 Probably the most logical human language is Esperanto, since it was created from scratch, without centuries of human inconsistent behavior affecting it.\u00a0 Aspects of English often strike me as illogical also.\u00a0 Why can we say, “It’s raining cats and dogs” but not “It’s raining dogs and cats”?\u00a0 \u00a0Why do we even evoke cats and dogs in this way is yet another question!\u00a0 \u00a0Why can we say that we talk “through our hats,” but not “into our hats”?\u00a0 I did hear someone say the latter once, but he was a 2nd-language speaker, albeit (normally) a very proficient one, with a Ph.D. from an American university.<\/p>\n

How about other inconsistencies within Irish?\u00a0 Why does the Irish for “bold-faced” (aghaidh-dh\u00e1na<\/strong>) use the typical word for “face” (aghaidh<\/strong>) but the Irish for “dog-faced” (conghn\u00faiseach<\/strong>!) use a word that more typically means “countenance” (gn\u00fais<\/strong>)?\u00a0 And there are about five more words for “face” in Irish, so why not them?<\/p>\n

And then there are issues as we go from language to language.\u00a0 Sheets of paper (remember paper?) may be called “dog-eared” in English but why does the Irish expression for the same thing involve cats (T\u00e1 cluais\u00edn\u00ed cait ar an bp\u00e1ip\u00e9ar sin<\/strong>)?\u00a0 Maybe in 50 years both expressions will be extinct, if we stop using paper.<\/p>\n

So the bottom-line answer to the original question is “no special reason” and no outright reason to use lenition or not for this particular phrase.\u00a0 It’s one case where Irish is flexible.\u00a0 If a speaker is using “muin<\/strong>” instead of “droim<\/strong>,”\u00a0 I’ve mostly seen “ar muin<\/strong>” But certainly some people say “ar mhuin<\/strong>.”\u00a0 If every blogpost attempted to cover every possible meaning and structure for every possible idea, it would be hard to ever complete a topic.\u00a0 I usually go with what sounds natural to me and what I’ve mostly heard other fluent speakers using, with a healthy dose of dictionary-checking and Googling for examples.<\/p>\n

III.. Sampla\u00ed<\/strong><\/p>\n

Having said all that, a few more examples might be of interest:<\/p>\n

A)) ar dhroim<\/strong> na muice<\/strong>: examples include the following:<\/p>\n

i)) Beidh\u00a0<\/strong>d\u00edograiseoir\u00ed<\/a><\/strong>\u00a0na gcarranna\u00a0seanr\u00e9<\/a><\/strong>\u00a0ar dhroim na muice le n\u00edos m\u00f3 n\u00e1 m\u00edle carr agus\u00a0gluaisrothar<\/a><\/strong>\u00a0clasaiceach<\/a><\/strong>\u00a0ar\u00a0taispe\u00e1ntas<\/a>.<\/strong>\u00a0(http:\/\/www.foinse.ie\/gneithe\/taisteal\/4322-biodh-la-iontach-gniomhaiochta-agat-le-do-dhaid\/<\/a>, B\u00edodh l\u00e1 iontach gn\u00edomha\u00edochta agat le do dhaid<\/a>, D\u00c9 M\u00c1IRT, 12 MEITHEAMH 2012 15:19 RIARTH\u00d3IR<\/p>\n

ii)) D\u00d3NALL:<\/strong>\u00a0…. Bh\u00ed t\u00fa\u00a0ar\u00a0dhroim\u00a0na\u00a0muice ansin. JIM\u00cd:\u00a0 Bh\u00ed m\u00e9 ar\u00a0dhroim\u00a0na\u00a0muice anois agus\u00a0m\u00e9\u00a0ag\u00a0dul \u00f3\u00a0jeab\u00a0go\u00a0jeab.<\/strong>\u00a0 (http:\/\/www.bealoideasbeo.ie\/bealoideas\/httpdocs\/trascribhinni\/007t008_tr.pdf<\/a>, Tionscadal B\u00e9aloidis\u00a0Ghaeltacht Th\u00edr\u00a0Chonaill, S\u00e9amus\u00a0(Jim\u00ed Mhic\u00ed Jim\u00ed)\u00a0Mac\u00a0Grianna agus an t-agall\u00f3ir, D\u00f3nall Dinny \u00d3 Gallach\u00f3ir, 2 Feabhra 2006)<\/p>\n

And these two, among many others, per https:\/\/www.gaois.ie\/g3m\/en\/?txt=ar+muin+na+muice&SearchMode=broad<\/a><\/p>\n

iii)) Bh\u00ed m\u00e9 ar\u00a0<\/strong>dhroim<\/strong>\u00a0na muice.<\/strong> Pok\u00e9mon Go \u2013 D\u00farud n\u00f3 Drochrud? \u2013 Gan ainm\u00a0 http:\/\/www.meoneile.ie\/ailt\/pok\u00e9mon-go-\u2013-d\u00farud-n\u00f3-drochrud<\/a> Date: 2016-07-26<\/p>\n

iv)) Ar\u00a0<\/strong>dhroim<\/strong>\u00a0na muice a bh\u00ed t\u00fa is d\u00f3cha? <\/strong>Lorc\u00e1n S. \u00d3 Treasaigh: C\u00e9ard \u00e9 English?. Cois Life 2002. https:\/\/www.coislife.ie\/product\/ceard-e-english\/<\/a>Page: 117<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

B)) ar + droim <\/strong>(with no change) It does seem rare and non-standard to use “ar<\/strong>” followed by “droim”<\/strong> with no lenition.\u00a0 I don’t remember ever hearing it and only one example showed up in all of my Google searching, in a tattoo discussion, so I’m not inclined to give it much credence or treat it as a linguistic role model.\u00a0\u00a0 I don’t especially like to name names for what I consider to be dubious grammar, which seems to haunt Irish tattoo discussions, so I’ll leave it to interested readers to research it for themselves, if they want.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

C)) ar muin na muice (“muin” <\/strong>without lenition):<\/p>\n

\u2018Agus d\u00e1 <\/strong>bhf\u00e9adfaimis an Tiarna a tharraingt isteach freisin, bheimis\u00a0ar\u00a0muin\u00a0na\u00a0muice,\u2019 a d\u2019fhreagair George.\u00a0 <\/strong>Brian \u00d3 Docharta\u00ed: Bean i mBiarritz. Cois Life 2007.\u00a0 https:\/\/www.coislife.ie\/product\/bean-i-mbiarritz\/<\/a>\u00a0 Page: 097 per https:\/\/www.gaois.ie\/g3m\/en\/?txt=ar+muin+na+muice&SearchMode=broad<\/a><\/p>\n

“Ar Muin na Muice” is also a column in The Journal (http:\/\/www.thejournal.ie\/ar-muin-na-muice\/news\/<\/a>\u00a0 OR #ar-muin-na-muice)<\/p>\n

This next one I find especially interesting because it uses “ar dhroim<\/strong>” for one expression but “ar muin<\/strong>” for the pig\/luck expression, within the same sentence.\u00a0 Also, it’s the first Irish sentence I’ve seen referring to rumspringa<\/em>!\u00a0 Seo \u00e9:\u00a0Bh\u00ed \u00e1r rumspringa againn, agus anois t\u00e1imid\u00a0ar\u00a0ais\u00a0ar\u00a0dhroim\u00a0na\u00a0duairce seachas a bheith\u00a0ar\u00a0muin\u00a0na\u00a0muice.\u00a0 <\/strong>Bliain na hainnise \u2013 Alan Titley\u00a0 Date: 2010-12-30,\u00a0\u00a0https:\/\/www.gaois.ie\/g3m\/en\/?txt=ar+muin+na+muice&SearchMode=broad<\/a><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

D)) ar mhuin na muice\u00a0<\/strong>(“muin<\/strong>” with lenition)\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong>Here are a few examples:<\/p>\n

http:\/\/www.hotpress.com\/Brid-Ni-Mhaoileoin-with-Alan-Burke\/music\/reviews\/albums\/Ar-Mhuin-Na-Muice-\/2738785.html<\/a> (re: an album entitled “Ar mhuin na Muice” by Br\u00edd N\u00ed Mhaoileoin (http:\/\/www.brid.at\/<\/a>).\u00a0 D\u00e1la an sc\u00e9il, t\u00e1 Gaeilge, B\u00e9arla, Fraincis, G\u00e9arm\u00e1inis agus Svaha\u00edlis ag Br\u00edd!\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

“Ar mhuin na muice” is also a reel on this album: https:\/\/www.amazon.com\/Mhuin-Muice-Master-Seamus-Lochlanns\/dp\/B01D1Z5GO0<\/a> (Marco Fabbri, “Crossroads”)<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Bhuel, sin sampla r\u00e9as\u00fanta samplach, is d\u00f3cha.\u00a0 T\u00e1 s\u00fail agam gur fhreagair s\u00e9 seo an cheist.\u00a0 SGF agus m\u00e1s amhlaidh go bhfuil t\u00fa ar m(h)uin na muice (n\u00f3: ar dhroim na muice) cheana f\u00e9in, t\u00e1 s\u00fail agam go bhfanfaidh t\u00fa ann.\u00a0 Muna bhfuil, \u00e1dh m\u00f3r leat ag iarraidh \u00e1it a fh\u00e1il ar an muin dhroimneach sin (ar an droim droimneach sin) ar deacair amanna su\u00edoch\u00e1n a fh\u00e1il uirthi\/air. — R\u00f3isl\u00edn \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n

Nasc don bhunbhlagmh\u00edr<\/strong>: Ar Dhroim (Ar Muin) na Muice: Not Quite The Same as \u201cHigh on the Hog\u201d<\/a>Posted by\u00a0r\u00f3isl\u00edn<\/a>\u00a0on May 5, 2012 in\u00a0Irish Language<\/a><\/p>\n

Blagmh\u00edr eile ar an \u00e1bhar seo<\/strong>:\u00a0On The Pig\u2019s Back vs. On the (implied) Hog\u2019s Back: An Irish Expression Exegetically Examined<\/a>Posted by\u00a0r\u00f3isl\u00edn<\/a>\u00a0on Aug 31, 2016 in\u00a0Irish Language<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"\"\"

\u00a0(le R\u00f3isl\u00edn) This blogpost will attempt to answer a question raised by reader Fergal on November 7, 2017, in response to the blogpost of May 5th, 2012, which was “Ar Dhroim (Ar Muin) na Muice: Not Quite The Same as \u201cHigh on the Hog\u201d (nasc th\u00edos).\u00a0 He asked, “If droim is lenited ‘ar dhroim\u2026.’ why…<\/p>\n

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