Last week I wrote a post in which I explained as best as I could the many ways in which we use that tricky little word called ci. If you missed it you can read it here: Ci – part 1 . Well done those of you who had a go at translating my two silly sentences. The aim of the exercise was to try to fit as many different types of ci as possible into one single sentence, therefore it was quite important to translate each ci into English even if it was redundant in order to clarify their meaning. Here are my translations:
1) ci andiamo domani pomeriggio dopo che ci siamo riposati, così vedremo se l’armadio ci sta. Se no, non so cosa possiamo farci
We’ll go there tomorrow afternoon after we have rested ourselves, therefore we’ll see if the wardrobe fits in there. If not, I don’t know what we can do about it.
2) quando l’acqua bolle ci metto gli spaghetti, e poi ci vuole il sale. Gli spaghetti ci mettono 10 minuti a cuocere. Quando sono cotti si condiscono con l’olio e ci si macina un po’ di pepe fresco che ci sta bene.
When the water boils I’ll put the spaghetti in it, then it needs salt. The spaghetti takes 10 minutes to cook. When it’s cooked one dresses it with oil and grinds a bit of fresh pepper on it, which goes well with it.
Sorry, I know the translations sound horrible, but I wanted to make them as literal as possible to show the many different uses of ci. Here in Italy we are particularly fond of the sound of this little word, so we use it as much as possible even when it’s not necessary, particularly with the verb avere, e.g. Giovanna: Scusa, ci hai una penna? Mario: No, non ce l’ho (Giovanna: Excuse me, have you got a pen? Mario: No, I haven’t got one), N.B. ci hai (you have), ci ho (I have) and so on, are pronounced as a single word, e.g. “chai”, “cho” etc. We also use ci with the verbs sentire and vedere, e.g. Scusa, puoi ripetere? Non ci sento bene (Excuse me, can you repeat that? I can’t hear very well). Things can get more confusing if you happen to travel through Toscana, the region of Italy that I come from, as you will probably hear a strange sound where you would expect to find the ci. In Toscana we tend to pronounce ci like the English word “she” instead of the more ‘correct’ pronunciation “chee”, so last example, non ci sento bene, would sound like non “she” sento bene.
Arrivederci! or should I say Arrivedershee!
Comments:
Nathan:
Buona Sera Serena,
My ancestors come from Tuscany, the city of Pistoia. Are there a lot of differences between “standard” Italian the the Tuscan dialect? I always thought Italian was based on Florentine because of Dante’s and Petrarch’s writings. I also remember hearing from a Sienese tour guide that in Siena one can hear Italian spoken perfectly, is there any truth to that?
Any blogs on Tuscan dialect would be fun to read! Keep up the great work, love reading your blog!
Ted Taormina:
Dear Serena, Thank you so much for the blog on “Ci.” I got more out of that than
any text book I’ve read. I am trying to study Italian by myself and it is very difficult as
I have no one to converse with so I have to try and figure things out as I go. “Ci” has
been a tough one and I continually misuse it. But your blog explained so much in
“lay” terms which made it meaningful and understandable. I’m not totally familiar
with it’s many uses yet but now I can study it. Thanks again and please keep up
the wonderful job you are doing. Best Regards, Ted Taormina
PS Would you consider doing a blog on indirect and disjunctive pronouns. I can
memorize the pronouns but I can’t get the hang of why and when they are used.
Serena:
Salve Nathan!
Some time ago I wrote a blog about the origins of the Italian language and its relationship to the Tuscan dialect. You can find it here : https://blogs.transparent.com/italian/italiano-o-toscano/
In a future blog I will write a bit more about Toscano and Toscanismi.
Auguri!
Serena:
Salve Ted!
Thank you for the compliments. It’s important to know that my blogs are helping people to understand this beautiful but complicated language. I will write a blog about pronouns soon, but I’m not familiar with the English name “disjunctive” pronouns. Could you give me an example?
A presto!
Nathan:
Grazie Serena,
Thanks for the help on Tuscan dialect. I thought I might be able to return the favor to a small degree with the “disjunctive” pronoun question above. Disjunctive pronouns are also called “stressed” pronouns and are used for emphasis. An example would be “no grazie, faccio da me.” or Vogliono vedere lui stasera.” I don’t know if that helps or not. Thanks again for the great blog!
Mathew:
Dear Serena
Thanks very much for the very helpful article on Ci. Occassionally, in written Italian, I have found VI used in substitution for Ci. Are there any rules for this substitution or it is just at the discretion of the author.
Mathew
Serena:
Salve Nathan, thank you for your clarification. In Italian we call them ‘forme pronominali toniche’. I’ll write a blog about them in the near future, promise!
Auguri!
Serena:
Salve Matthew!
‘Vi’ is an older version of the adverb ‘ci’, coming directly from the Latin ‘ibi’ (in Italian it became ‘ivi’, and then ‘vi’). It’s only used with the meaning of ‘there’, and it’s not common in spoken Italian.
Auguri!
chainey:
Apologies for commenting on such an old post, but I just wanted to say that I think incorporating the various uses of a word in an example sentence is a stroke of genius.
That way a student like me can memorize a sentence and have a mnemonic that packs a lot of theory into a small unit. Very useful.
I hope you are able to do more in the future, though I’m sure they must be challenging to construct!
Serena:
Salve Chainey, Thanks for your comment. I always try to include lots of practical, everyday examples of spoken Italian in my articles. I know that for many learners, technical explanation about grammar are more or less useless without something ‘real’ to grasp onto. ‘Ci’ is particularly difficult because we use it in so many different ways, and quite often it’s redundant but gives a better flow to the language. For example, it’s very common to say ‘c’ho un cane’ (i.e. ‘ci ho un cane’, or I have a dog), instead of the more correct ‘ho un cane’ (I have a dog), or c’hai una matita?, instead of the correct ‘hai una matita?’ (have you got a pencil?)
A presto, Serena