A few weeks ago one of the readers made a comment about Prussia. A family member of hers claimed to have Prussian ancestry, not Polish. Personally, I find this statement a bit odd, but that’s just me, OK?
Prussia, Prusy in Polish (a.k.a. Germany, or one of its many incarnations) was a neighbor of Poland for many, many centuries. Eventually, on August 5, 1772, it added a big chunk of Poland to its own territory.
Remember the Partitions (rozbiory)? Well, that’s when it happened. Russia and Austria got a nice piece each, too.
You see, Prussia was very oddly shaped – there was East Prussia and West Prussia. And between them was a bit of Poland. Of course they didn’t like it, and as soon as they got a chance, they took care of that issue – by adding the Polish territory to their own.
click on the map to make it bigger
Here, on the map you can see how Poland disappeared. The white area bordered by all the blue and the see – that’s East Prussia. The darker blue area to the left of that – that used to be Poland. The slightly less dark blue area under the dark blue area used to be Poland, too. That chunk went to Prussia during the second partition.
So unless someone’s ancestors came from the white bit of East Prussia, or the white area to the left of the blue pieces – West Prussia, I’m not sure just how Prussian they could be otherwise.
If I remember correctly, I also have a bunch of relatives who claimed Prussian ancestry. They spoke German and had goofy German last names. And during communist times they all emigrated to West Germany.
It just goes to show you that Poles come in all different flavors.
Yet for some very odd reason it’s more common for certain Poles from the Prussian part of Poland (after the Partitions) to say they are of Prussian origin than for Poles from the Russian part to admit to Russian origin.
This post is in no way intended to stir controversy. It was simply to show you how Poland ceased to exist. Geographically, that is.
Image: Wikipedia
Comments:
x:
I think it would be more accurate to say that the map shows how the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth ceased to exist…
michael farris:
Technically Prussia wasn’t ‘Germany’ but a state in the North (and especially Northeast) of the German speaking areas (before WWII of course) of Europe.
Most of what’s now Southern Germany didn’t really have anything to do with Prussia before the establishment of the German empire.
Prussia was an especially … influential part of the German speaking areas and had a fair amount of world influence in educational and military affairs (IIRC the modern education system of Japan was modeled after the Prussian system).
In modern Poland, Poznań, historically part of Prussia as Posen, prides itself on its Prussian influence (and has historically been among the most European, forward looking and efficiently managed cities in Poland).
Anna:
Hi Michael!
That’s true, and that’s why I said it was “Germany” in one of its many incarnations, and when the capital of Prussia was moved to Berlin, Prussia became de facto Germany.
Gdańsk also prides itself on its German (and Dutch) influence, however it took some time for the influence to re-emerge after WW2. But Prussian influence on Polish soil is one thing, and a Pole (coming from a village by Warsaw IIRC) claiming to be of Prussian and not Polish decent is another. But then again, people would have claimed Klingon ancestry if that could have helped them leave Poland during the communist times…
X,
Thank you for pointing it out! How silly of me not to realize that there was no such thing as Poland, but the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Duh! I must have been asleep in my history classes.
😉
Regina Gupta:
I’m looking for a Michael A Farris who was a student at the University of Florida in the early 1990s and who moved to Poland to teach. Have I found him?
Justin:
The Prussians were also a Baltic ethnic group in the area, who lent their name to the state. The language they spoke was Old Prussian, the most closely related living languages of which are Latvian and Lithuanian. This language saw extinction about three hundred years ago when its speakers gradually disappeared into the more numerous populations of Germans, Poles and Lithuanians surrounding them.
Morley Kwaschnefski:
I have tried to research my last name with no luck. Older family members are passed away. The farthest back I found is my great grandfather Jon Kwaschnefski who left Bremen Germany for the US in the late 1800’s. Polish, German, or Prussian? Just want to know to tell my son. I have always said Polish, but often times Polish names have milder sounding names than mine. Any help would be appreciated.
Katherine Tutschek:
@Morley Kwaschnefski My grandmother was from East Prussia (born 1927) and always considered herself German. Her last name was Richter. From my understanding, there were people identifying as Poles and Germans living in Prussia, and after WWII, when part of what was once Prussia became part of Poland, many Germans fled to Germany, or (in the case of my family, overseas to Canada). Those who identified as Polish remained. Based on your last name, it doesn’t sound German to me, but as last names are only passed on through the male line, it’s possible you have German blood on your maternal side. We all mix together the farther back you go, anyway;) From my understanding, it is possible to be German (ethnically, culturally, linguistically, religiously as well if you like) while also being Prussian. I’d assume you could be ethnically Polish while also being Prussian as well.
If you are looking for more info on your ancestors, try church records, civil records, censuses etc., army records. It’s great that you already know the city your great-grandfather is from, that’s a starting point that not every one has!
Mark Bolliger:
Prussia was a country before the country of Germany was established. Most people don’t realize that Germany wasn’t a country until the early 1900’s. The country’s and kingdoms that make up todays Germany were called German states. Prussia was dissolved to create the unified country of Germany. When I read my grandparents marriage and birth certificates, they stated either West Prussia or East Prussia. Their native language was German. I do claim to be Prussia, not German or Polish!
The Baron:
Prussia!
You’re all on the right track, but there’s some tweaking needed.
The original Prussians were a Baltic peoples that were Christianized by the Teutonic Knights and then incorporated into Poland after the Knights were destroyed. Those original inhabitants eventually disappeared and were replaced by Germanic colonists. Prussi as a language is long dead.
Prussia was given to Brandenberg, which contained Berlin. Back in those days, the German states were loosely controlled by the Holy Roman Emperor. Brandenberg-Prussia gained its independence in 1701. Regarded as Prussia from that time forward, it fought its way into a reputation of being a Sparta of the North.
Under the direction of Bismark, the Prussian army destroyed Denmark, Austria and then France to conquer the German area and incorporate it into a Germanic Empire. Within the empire the states and kingdoms had theoretical power, but the Prussians controlled it all.
After the abdication of the Kaiser in 1918, Prussia was the largest province within Germany.
In 1945, the Allies believed that Prussia was the cause of the war and dissolved it. This was wrong, of course. It was caused by the Austrian in charge!
dgale:
A lot of people still consider themselves Prussian,, My family is Prussian Lutheran,,, well,, American first,, but the latter still used,, still follow the royal house ,,,,symbolic leaders of our church,, or they were anyway,,
Jay Cofty (Scotland):
My great,great grandfather Johan Sancoffsky wrote in 1827 in his autobiography that he was born in Mechlow near Finkenstein in Polish Prussia on 31 August 1774 and christened in Finkenstein Church, nearest town Risaburg His language was German and religion Lutheran. He worked as a clerk in the general’s house which had over 300 rooms (presumably Finkenstein Palace).
Whilst living in Dantzig in 1791 the city was taken by the King of Prussia and Johan set sail from Dantzig and settled in England in 1807 where he changed his name to John Cofty.
ernie jukes:
I understand that my ancestors JUCKSCH-KETTSCHLAG immigrated to Canada from Gross Gandern (prussia) in 1861.
Any information would be greatly appreciated
Ernie Jukes
leanne:
my family is of prussian descent as well.. i’ve been looking for any sort of information on the family (klemsz, last name possibly contained a t at some point..) stumbled across this page looking for any history or insight.
Ernie Jukes:
Unfortunately It seems some people are more concerned with the politics of Prussia vrs Poland. When Family Jucksch immigrated to Canada it was Germany.in an area once known as Prussia. Will someone over there please help me find any record of their background in the dorf of Gross Gandern now called a Polish name. They spoke German and their is no history of anything Polish. We of course can not help that but still deserve a bit of help as we would do so in the reverse situation. Thats what Canadians are like! E. Jukes
Ernie Jukes:
Anna…….They spoke German, had German customs immigrated to a Geman town of Hanover ,Ontario, Canada…so they came from Prussia whats the problem now lets be more helpful, quit the politics and tell me more about the Jucksch- Kettschlag in Gross Gandern. Or anything before it became Gadkow Wielki, Poland. Danke….Ernie Jukes from Canada
Diane Polte:
Looking for any info re the Polte family from Freiburg (Pol: Sweibosie (sp?), Polsnitz (Pol: Pelznica), or Barsdorf (Pol: Targoszyn.) Frederick von Polte m. Christiana Schramm: children – Anna, Adolph, Amelia, Gustav, Ida, Emma, Erica, Gretel.
Nicole Smith:
I ran across this website looking for information on my family, last name Pitzke. I was told my great great great grandfather(George Fredrick William Pitzke), I think is what he would be, immigrated to the US-he lived in Rugenwalde, Prussia. If anyone has any information PLEASE email me. Thank you.
NM:
Hi All,
I am searching for anyone who may know specifics about a story that was told by the older people in my family. Unfortunately, none are still living so I can’t get details. Here is the story:
A Polish or Prussian woman came to the USA after her family was deposed. Depending on the dramatic flair of the storyteller, she was either a princess or a titled noble. I suspect the latter because princesses tend to be well accounted for in known history. She was a younger, or the youngest daughter in the family. She came to a city on the East Coast I assume(some said New York, others don’t know what city).
Supposedly, she would ride out daily in her carriage, beautifully dressed, etc. A man who saw her go by every day (again depending on storyteller) either fell in love, or at least liked the way she looked and wanted to court her. He is said to have one day grabbed the reins to halt the carriage and state his intention to court her. The coachman then smacked him across the face with his whip and told him to begone! Nevertheless this man stopped the carriage every day to ask her to allow him to court her and she eventually agreed.
They eventually married and became homesteaders in Texas.
Does this sound familiar to anyone? I will do a formal genealogical search someday, but since I ran across this site I thought that I would ask.
Thanks,
NM
Anji Zwadlo:
My father was born in Finkenstein near Oppeln in Upper Silesia and my mother in Gross Peterwitz in West Prussia. They are not the same area,They are two distinct places. My mother was a refugee, my father was not yet They met in the UK.
Joan Jasper:
Most of my adult life I have wondered if my ancestors were from Prussian decent. If I understand your map correctly, please confirm this for me: My mother’s side was from Germany. Her family immigrated to America before the second world war. She was born in a small German town named Schlegel, which was very close to Stettin clearly in a white north western area on your map. Can you expand on this?
Thanks,
JJ
Gaylin Krupke Bingle:
I’m looking for information on my grandparents. Wilhelm Krupke and Wanda Hess Krupke.
They came to the United States in 1903 from Kikół [ˈkikuu̯] in Lipno County, Kuyavian-Pomeranian Voivodeship, in north-central Poland.
I’d like to know about their parents or any family they left behnd.
Please email me!!
Heidi:
My parents were from Prussia. My father is now 87 years old, as of today, 1/21/16. My mother was from Bobrovo or Bobru, in German. She described the community as a mixture of German and Polish, in which both languages were spoken in daily life. Her grandfather had relocated to the area from Germany, and she grew up bilingual. As I understand it, ethnicity and nationality were never automatically the same thing in that region. So undoubtedly, there are still ethnic Germans or Prussians still living there, whose descendants are now Polish by nationality. This is the same dynamic as in many countries where there is immigration or border changes.
Cynthia Marie Stephens Lucas:
I have a large amount of passed along stories from my mothers family who fled into the Fichtelgeberg area near Hof. I recall seeing the township they were from in an old book that has been lost. The township…as it is listed on her birth certificate was Biddenteich, Ostprussien. I continue to search but have not been able to find ANYTHING about this township. according to family my Opa was a Junker and wound up in a goulag from which he later escaped. There are so many puzzle pieces and I am trying to piece the stories together and sort fact from embellishment. To just find out what the township is now called would be fabulous! If anyone can help I would be so grateful!!
Cynthia Conciatu:
Both my maternal and paternal families came to America in the late 1860s. They all settled in Detroit. As I began researching my family and found ship registries and other documents, the Country of Origin spaces showed variations of Prussian Poland. My grand parents told me we are Polish and had never included Prussia as being part of our nationality. It was through research that I discovered the history lesson about Prussia.
A brother emailed me this evening. He’s lists to the right politically and years ago changed his last name to camouflage his heritage. He is just now beginning his own research, and seemed to be relieved to find that we are Prussian and German.
I assured him that we are in fact 100% Polish from Poznan, with a touch of Kashube on both sides. I gave him a thumbnail history of Poland and the many partitions, the invasions, the wonderful social and intellectual traits of Polish people. I told him awill the German/ Aryan/everyone else is inferior propaganda that, to dull the German conscience, pointed to the Polish as stupid and uneducated (not so!). I told him how Polish children who fit the Aryan mold were kidnapped and sent to German families, the work camps and death camps and more. I am proud of our Polish roots. Hopefully he will too.
Audra Tillitzki:
Hi my husbands family come from gdansk as his surname is Tillitzki we believe his family were from Prussia but his great grandfather von Godfrey Tillitzki which the von had been dropped when he came to Australia declared he was polish descend.we have no family history,and to date have never found anything.if anyone can help.please let me know
ALLISON M KAZAKEVICS:
My family Ebel were from Prussia, on Ancestry.com.au
it says they were from Piepenburg.
My Great Grandfather naturilized to be a New Zealand citizen.
On his Certificate, it says he came from a place in Prussia called Scnwatgad.
I have googled that place name and come up with nothing.
Can anyone shed any light on that place name>
Kristin O:
My great grandfather immigrated to the US from Breslau in Lower Silesia. Were residents of Silesia considered to be Prussians? His two sisters were forced to leave Breslau at the end of WWII when Germans were forced out of the territory. The earliest family member is from 1760. Last name Mokros. I am curious about the origin.