Comments:

1. 

    

   Robin:

   I suppose your question at the end is leading up to a post on также versus так же? Which is what I would have suggested otherwise. 😉

   • 

      

     yelena:

     @Robin Excellent, Robin! But whether there is going to be a post on также vs так же remains to be seen. depends on how much interest is expressed in this particular issue 🙂

2. 

    

   Oritsema:

   From what I read here it seems like также has a meaning that can be compared with “likewise” – the also seems to refer to the verb, whereas тоже more to the nouns.

   Like:
   У меня аллергия на рыбок, а также и на кошек»
   I have an allergy to fish, and I also have an allergy to cats.

   У меня аллергия на рыбок и на кошек тоже
   I have an allergy to fish and also to cats.

   In the first sentence the also refers to having an allergy whereas in the second it refers to the cats.

3. 

    

   Minority:

   Yelena, yes, you were right, it’s not a trick for me 🙂
   «Я люблю грамматику так же, как математику».

   And I’m glad you wrote this post, ’cause this subject is really hard to explain.)

4. 

    

   Macdonald:

   Finally,I get to understand when to use these words! Thanks a million Yelena! Hope you can write a post on the use of так же .

   • 

      

     yelena:

     @Macdonald Great, so I’m going to start thinking about то же and так же.

5. 

    

   David Roberts:

   I thought I understood it before: now, although I feel I’ve learned more, I’m less certain!

   In the sentence «У меня аллергия на рыбок, а также и на кошек», why can’t it be тоже? My reasoning goes like this. We have one verb, есть (not written but understood) and two subjects: аллергия на рыбок and аллергия на кошек (the second “аллергия” being understood). So what’s wrong with «У меня аллергия на рыбок, а на кошек тоже»?

   My grammar book (by Derek Offord) says: …тоже may be used if an additional subject is performing the same action. также must be used if a single subject is performing an additional action or performing an action that affects an additional object. If we apply the last part strictly, the conversation “Я радуюсь видеть тебя” – “я тоже” would be wrong, but rules rarely apply 100%. Offord also says that you can often use также in place of тоже, but not vice versa.

   isn’t really what any native english speaker would ever say or write. I think we would always say “Masha has a nice voice. So do I” or “Masha has a nice voice. and I do too” or something like that

   • 

      

     yelena:

     @David Roberts David, the conjunction “а” is not used with “тоже”, however it is used with “также”. So you either have to say “у меня аллергия на рыбок, а также на кошек” or “у меня аллергия на рыбок и на кошек тоже”.

     But this sentence doesn’t have two subjects, just one – “аллергия”; “на кошек” and “на рыбок” are not parts of the subject (or two subjects), but instead “дополнение” [an object] since “аллергия (на кого?) на рыбок и на кошек” [allergic (to whom?) to pet fish and to cats].

     In the example of “я рад видеть тебя. я тоже. ” [I’m glad to see you. Me too.], use of “тоже” is correct since this is a dialogue between two people and “я” represents two different subjects – person 1 and person 2. So you actually have to apply the first part of your textbook’s explanation – “to use тоже if an additional subject is performing the same action”. However, just like your textbook points out, you can use “также” instead of “тоже” here 🙂

6. 

    

   David Roberts:

   Correction. My last paragraph should be:

   “In addition to Masha, I too have a nice voice.” isn’t really what any native english speaker would ever say or write. I think we would always say “Masha has a nice voice. So do I” or “Masha has a nice voice. and I do too” or something like that.

7. 

    

   Rob McGee:

   Thanks for the very clear explanation, Yelena! I also checked a couple of grammar references from my bookshelf, and one of them made an additional point about тоже v. также: In speech, тоже tends to be heavily stressed, but также does not — instead, the stress goes on the second item that is linked by также. Thus using all-caps for the stressed word:

   Крысы избегали отравленного корма, и мыши ТОЖЕ. (По-видимому, они чувствовали какой-то неприятный запах от яда.)
   “The rats avoided the poisoned food, and so did the mice. (Evidently, they sensed some kind of disagreeable smell from the poison.)”

   Крыса грызёт резиновую игрушку, а также МОЁТСЯ.
   “The rat is gnawing a rubber toy, and also washing itself.”

   Крыса грызёт резиновую игрушку, а также КОСТОЧКУ.
   “The rat is gnawing a rubber toy, and also a small bone.”

   Does this point about the different stress-patterns sound correct to native speakers?

8. 

    

   Rob McGee:

   By the way, I learned something new from the “tagline” at the top of the Рататуи image:

   Он до смерти хочет стать шеф-поваром.

   I know that дО смерти is generally the same as English “to death”, in the sense of “to an extreme degree” — e.g., Детям было скучно до смерти, “the children were bored to death.” However, it never would have occurred to me to use it with хотеть, because — well, because we don’t say in English “He wants it to death.” (But we can say “He wants it so badly he could die”.)

   P.S. Or… come to think of it, maybe I’m totally misinterpreting the phrase and here it means “before he dies (of old age)”? Can you use до смерти in that sense?

   • 

      

     yelena:

     @Rob McGee Rob, you’re very observant! And the tagline can be read both ways depending on whether you emphasize “до” or “смерти”.

     If the emphasis is on “до” here, then the meaning is “He is dying to become a chef”
     If the emphasis is on “смерти”, then the meaning changes to “Before he dies, he’d like to be a chef” or, rephrased in Russian, “Перед смертью он хочет стать шеф-поваром”.

     Ha, this little word play definitely makes the tagline a lot more interesting and amusing.

9. 

    

   David:

   Brilliant of you to spot this Rob, in such small print. Another related English idiom is “dying to”, so “Я до смерти хочу читать ответ Елени” (or would Я до смерти хду ответ Елени be better?) might be a good way of translating “I’m dying to read Yelena’s answer.

   • 

      

     yelena:

     @David David, I agree, Rob’s observation is very keen. I’m going to think of a rules-based answer, but for now I’ll just use the specific examples you and Rob gave me:

     “Я до смерти хочу читать ответ Елены” (with stress on “до”) means “I’m dying to read Yelena’s answer”, but
     “Я хочу еще до смерти прочитать ответ Елены” (with stress on “смерти”) would mean “I’d like to read Yelena’s answer before I die”