I recently received the following comment from a reader: “I think the two prepositions da and per, when they have the same meaning, is a source of confusion since there isn’t a rule to go by. A future blog would be much appreciated on this.”
Yes, it’s true that this is a tricky subject, so I did a bit of research on the use of these two prepositions when they describe the purpose of an object, and, I must admit, I was quite taken aback by the results: several authoritative fonts such as Grammatica Italiana, by Battaglia e Pernicone (Loescher, Torino), and Guida all’italiano corretto, by Paola Sorge (Newton Tascabili) state that it is actually more correct to say la macchina per cucire (the sewing machine), la macchina per scrivere (the typewriter) etc., however, we much more commonly say la macchina da cucire and la macchina da scrivere.
So unfortunately, dear readers, there’s no fixed rule about which preposition to use, it’s just a matter of constant use, and practice practice practice. As is often the case in colloquial speech, we get used to use a particular form such as in the examples above of la macchina da cucire and la macchina da scrivere. However, that doesn’t mean that it is necessarily ‘correct’ because in reality both prepositions can be used, and it’s just a matter of preference or cultural habit that dictates whether da or per is used. Below is a list of some object names in Italian showing the most commonly used of the two prepositions. N.B. in certain cases you will see that both forms are used:
la crema idratante per il corpo/le mani/il viso = the moisturizing body/hand/face cream
la schiuma da barba = the shaving foam
lo spazzolino da denti = the toothbrush
la spazzola per i capelli = the hairbrush
il telo da bagno = the bath towel
la salvietta per gli ospiti = the guest towel
il tappetino da bagno/per il bagno = the bath mat
il vestito/l’abito da sera = the evening dress
il vestito/l’abito da sposa = the wedding dress
la camicia da notte = the nightgown
le scarpe da tennis = the tennis shoes
gli scarponi da montagna/per la montagna = the hiking boots
la camera da letto = the bedroom
la sala da pranzo = the dining room
il detersivo per i piatti = the washing up liquid
la tazzina da caffè = the coffee cup
il coltello da pane/per il pane = the bread knife
Remember, we do value constructive comments and questions as these can help us to improve our blog and tailor them to your needs. Grazie a Paolo per averci posto la domanda
Comments:
dave morgan:
It seems from your examples that per is used before a definite/indefinite article
Kevin:
I noticed that “per” is used with an indefinite article (per il pane), and “da” is used when there is no article (da pane). Is this a general rule that we can follow? Thanks for your blog and the great information!
Serena:
@Kevin Salve James, salve Dave!
Yes, the preposition ‘per’ is normally used with l’articolo determinativo (the definite article), unless the noun is followed by an adjective, e.g. ‘crema per le mani’ (hand cream), but ‘crema per mani screpolate’ (cream for chapped hands).
Saluti da Serena
Luigi:
I am Italian, and when I was learning English I ran into similar problems. While growing up I also had to take French & German. I can tell you one thing, when it comes to prepositions, more often than not, there isn’t a rule, you just have to learn them.
I also took Spanish for 2 semesters, and I had problems learning the difference between Por and Para, which is kind of the problem you are describing in this article with Da and Per.
Serena:
@Luigi Salve Luigi!
Hai perfettamente ragione, le preposizioni non sono mai traducibili da una lingua all’altra in modo univoco, bisogna sempre vedere il contesto, il verbo reggente e così via.
Saluti da Serena
Maryssa:
Ciao Serena,
Are there set rules on when to use a, di or in? Just when I think I know how to use them correctly, I see them used in different way. Any guidance would be much appreciated! Grazie mille!
Serena:
@Maryssa Salve Maryssa,
unfortunately there aren’t any set rules on when to use the prepositions. Bisogna imparare a memoria le varie espressioni. I still get them wrong in English!
Saluti da Serena