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July’s Grammar Clinic Posted by on Jul 4, 2014 in Grammar

Your feedback and questions are very important to us, as they really help us to focus on your needs. Sometimes readers have questions about particular aspect of Italian grammar that we feel it would be useful to share with everyone. Here are three important ones:

Question 1. From Robin: I have another “reader’s question” and wonder if you could help with a blog on it. It relates to the translation of the English:
“On arriving at work…(e.g.I remembered in fact I had booked a day of holiday)”
“On closing the door…”
“On speaking with her…”
“On confronting him…”
While doing an exam, I recently came across the phrase “Nel chiudere la porta, mi sono accorto che le chiavi erano dentro”. In English we start each of these sentences with “On” but in Italian there seems to be an option of Sul or Nel…or “Arrivando al lavoro..”? Can you help explain the translations and the prepositions?

Keys inside
Ever locked your keys inside? photo: tinyfroglet (CC)

Salve Robin: To express two actions taking place at the same time, we can use three forms in Italian:
a) the infinitive preceded by the preposition nel (or nell’ before a vowel), e.g.Nel chiudere la porta, mi sono accorto che le chiavi erano dentro” = “On closing the door, I realised that the keys were inside”; nell’arrivare al lavoro, mi sono ricordato che avevo preso un giorno di ferie = On arriving at work, I remembered I had booked a day of holiday. The preposition sul is not used in Italian, this would be a literal translation from English.

b) the present gerund, e.g. chiudendo la porta, mi sono accorto che …. = while closing the door, I realised that …; arrivando al lavoro, mi sono ricordato che … = arriving at work, I remembered that …

c) mentre followed by the imperfect or the past continuous, e.g. mentre chiudevo/stavo chiudendo la porta, mi sono accorto che … = while I was closing the door, I realised that …; mentre arrivavo/stavo arrivando al lavoro, mi sono ricordato che … = while I was arriving at work, I remembered that …

Question 2. From Gery: Ciao Serena, Geoff,
Qual è la regola per l’aggettivo ‘scorso’? Trovo altrettanto spesso prima e dopo il sostantivo, ad esempio: l’anno scorso e lo scorso anno. Qual è la differenza?
What is the rule for the adjective ‘scorso’? I often find it used both before and after the noun, for example: l’anno scorso e lo scorso anno. What is the diference?

Salve Gery: the adjective scorso is the past participle of the verb scorrere (to flow, to pass), and therefore it should follow the noun, in fact past participle used as adjectives come after the noun. However it’s very common to find scorso meaning ‘last/past’ before the noun, e.g. l’anno scorso and lo scorso anno (last year), la settimana scorsa and la scorsa settimana (last week), l’inverno scorso and lo scorso inverno (last winter), etc. In these cases there is no difference at all in the meaning or emphasis of scorso.

Question 3. From Gustavo: Ho un dubbio: il pronome “voi” può essere utilizzato come un pronome formale?
I have a doubt: can the pronoun ‘voi’ be used as a formal pronoun?

Salve Gustavo! The pronoun ‘voi’ is still used in some regions of Italy, especially those which had a Spanish influence, as a singular formal pronoun instead of ‘lei’. Lei was chosen to be used in modern Italian because during the Fascist period Mussolini made it obligatory to use ‘voi’ (the so called ‘fascist voi’), and in fact some old people still use it. Therefore it is preferred not to use it simply for historical reasons.

Keep those questions coming! Saluti da Serena

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Comments:

  1. john bailey:

    mi piace molto questo blog!! una domanda per favore. la parole “proprio” e usato in multi diversi modi. piacere spiega.

    • Geoff:

      @john bailey Salve JB!
      Avevo cominciato a risponderti, ma poi mi sono accorta che ci sono tantissime cose da dire a proposito di ‘proprio’. Questo sarà l’argomento del mio prossimo articolo, penso mercoledì di questa settimana.

      Saluti da Serena

  2. Michele Mandrioli:

    Ciao Serena e Geoff –
    Mi piacciono molto i suoi Blogs. Perché nei operi di Verdi, spesso usano la seconda persona plurale quando parlano a una persona? Ho domandato il mio professore d’italiano e lui ha detto che è il uso arcaico.

    • Geoff:

      @Michele Mandrioli Salve Michele, la risposta si trova nel blog: “The pronoun ‘voi’ is still used in some regions of Italy, especially those which had a Spanish influence, as a singular formal pronoun instead of ‘lei’. Lei was chosen to be used in modern Italian because during the Fascist period Mussolini made it obligatory to use ‘voi’ (the so called ‘fascist voi’), and in fact some old people still use it. Therefore it is preferred not to use it simply for historical reasons.”

      Saluti da Geoff

  3. Paul:

    mi piace molto suo blog, leggo sempre e’ molto utile. Il mio problema e’ la parolina “tanto” e usato in multi diversi modi. (as, insomuch, while) Ho notato che gli italiani usanno sempre… aiutami!

    grazie

    • Serena:

      @Paul Salve Paul, grazie per i complimenti. Sì, ‘tanto’ è usato in tanti modi diversi, tanti quanti se ne possono immaginare ,)
      Ti prometto che presto sciverò un articolo su gli altri usi di tanto. Intanto puoi cominciare leggendo questo blog di un paio di anni fa: https://blogs.transparent.com/italian/using-molto-and-tanto/.
      Tanti saluti da Serena


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